Remnants of the Precursors Succession Game?

[Brian Shanahan]

A couple thoughts after looking at the inherited turn:

- The brains have repulsor beam tech, which could make a hard beam offense ineffective. Our best range 2 beam is the heavy ion cannon, which is getting out-dated (although this also means miniaturized). I am considering a huge design with one fewer hard beams as the Mothership design, but split in two slots. Then add half a dozen heavy ion cannon for 2 space range, and a dozen or so anti-matter bombs in the fourth slot. To manage this we drop the graviton beams and go with combat speed 3 rather than 4. We can also fit on a repulsor beam in the specials.

It would be slower, needing an extra turn to reach a planet. But for a primarily ship-to-ship design that is not really a major loss. It would not be helpless against repulsor ships, could contribute to ground attack, and has a repulsor. Overall ship-to-ship combat power is pretty much the same, but lacks the streaming effects of the graviton beams.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Hate it?

- I also played around with an AM bomber design as an alternative to the Omega bomber. If we drop Manouver to 4 rather than 5 (still combat speed 4), armor to duralloy rather than zortrium, and the battle computer to Mark 4 rather than Mark 5 we can fit it on a small hull rather than a medium. Single AM bomb with Mark 4 computer compared to two Omega-V bombs with Mark 5 computer, 18 BC each vs 93 BC each. Not sure if that is worth doing overall. The Omega bomber design is obviously a lot more future proof. (The brains currently have 9 points of total shielding for their bases.)

Note that Armored Exoskeleton is at 23%, and the construction tech boost would likely let us fit the better computer on the small. Possibly both the computer and the better armor, as it is only a difference of 1-2 spaces for both.

- For the Beamer design, just replacing it with a new design with the beams split into multiple slots seems useful. Only one has actually been built so far, so it would be minimal cost to shift the design.

Design suggestions and thoughts are appreciated.

I think the bomber idea looks nice, especially if the miniturisation gets back the BCV.

On the Huge design, I'm not too sure, so won't make any judgement other than, "if you build them and they don't work, we can just scrap them".

[Dp101]

What's the best missile you guys have to work with?

Hyper Xs and Scatter Pack Vs.

[haphazard1]

A missile upgrade would certainly be useful. Hopefully we can steal or conquer one.

I have been busy today (big birthday party for my aunt, who is 85 today ), but should be able to play in the next 12 hours or so. I will get some scanner ships to brain space to check out our target's fleet, while building some beamers and bombers. Once we have a decent force assembled, the war will start.

[RefSteel]

I hope you had a great time with the family, haphazard! 85 is impressive - I hope you're aunt's doing well!

And yup, our Scatter 5s are getting pretty long in the tooth for this point in the game - as are our Ion Cannons, still our only 2-space beams! Hopefully we'll find some cool new weapons soon....

Also, at least I know for sure with Xilmi the AI does the same thing, they will send in maybe not totally dedicated bombers, but some ships with a lot of bombs and others with few or none. When on defense you pretty much have to go after the bombers as a first priority because if you can't stop them then they are just going to destroy the planet, esp. Death Spores, so they put you in the same position.

But if you are saying that you add bombs to your air superiority fighters to intentionally reduce your fleet effectiveness because you feel that is more fair, then by all means :)

Yeah, that makes sense; in more detail though:

For me, it's a slightly subtler distinction: My rule isn't to artificially handicap my ship designs, but to assume (or say pretend) that the AI is smarter than it is when I'm making my ship designs: If I want a huge gunship, I'll design it the way I like, with banks and banks of beams. If I know the AI is suicidally obsessed with stopping bombers, I could also throw a few random bombs onto my gunship, hoping to bait the AI into uselessly shooting at the dreadnought's ARS instead of at the swarms of fighters that are my real ship-to-ship offense and actually vulnerable to attrition. I don't do that because I'm assuming/pretending the AI will attack my vulnerable ships even if I know it won't. And if I want a huge gunship that will also be able to sit on a planet while transports fly in from far away, blowing up missile bases as they get rebuilt, I'll put some bombs on it (or rather, if someone else in an SG has already built one like that, I'll use it) even if I'm worried the AI might be able to slag it or force it to retreat: I'll just reserve it for fights that I expect it to survive, or retreat it when necessary, and plan around the possibility that they will go after it, and make sure I have enough force of other kinds to win in case they do.

Also, when on defense, I wouldn't necessarily go after the bombers first. In RotP, as I understand it at least, it's possible to defend a planet from dedicated bombers in incredibly cheesy but effective ways as long as you can take out their space superiority ships and survive whatever space-to-space weapons their bombers carry. You don't even need Repulsors or Dissipators - just enough different designs in the same battle - though I don't know if even the Xilmi AI uses tactics as ridiculous as this.

Even without that though, if I'm not going to be able to stop their bombers from doing ~the worst they can do (destroying all the bases? wiping out the whole colony from the combat screen, especially with spores?) then I probably wouldn't target them until I've beaten their space superiority fleet. Then if the bombers don't retreat for whatever reason, my spacefleet can burn them down, and if they do, they're still taken out of action while they're forced to retreat to a friendly colony - where I may be able to chase them again if I can hit it with a winning fleet. Of course, that's just theorycrafting. If I think I can save a colony (or substantial parts of its value) by hitting the bombers first (and still win the space battle so it isn't wasted effort) that I couldn't without, I probably would - but I'd hope it's a much more complicated decision than just "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa kill the bombers kill them!!!!!" if I'm (or if any player or AI is) playing the battle well!

[haphazard1]

I hope you had a great time with the family, haphazard!  85 is impressive - I hope you're aunt's doing well!

Thanks, RefSteel! Lots of the extended family was able to make it, and we had a great time. My aunt is still going strong, if not quite as fast as she used to.

I agree about bombs on huge auto-repair designs. It is nice to have some, so the ship can hold a system while transports are on the way and clear one or two bases as the enemy tries to rebuild them. This frees your main bomber stack(s) to move on to fresh targets. And the big ship can also clean up or scare off the random ships that the AI had moving around, while your main space fleet is busy elsewhere clearing new systems.

[haphazard1]

OK, turns have been played. I will get a report up soon (need some breakfast first), but a quick summary:

- 6 Mentaran worlds have been conquered
- New techs have been looted, traded for, stolen, and researched. We have grabbed new toys every way possible.
- Our lizards are now leading the galaxy in total power. This is usually a pretty good sign of reaching a winning position.

Full report soon.

[haphazard1]

The newly confirmed prime magister paced slowly around his grand office, thinking and planning. His predecessor had completed the conquest of the Meklonar, leaving them limited to a single poor world and no longer a threat to the Ssslauren people. Now he had entered office with a mandate to continue the people's grand expansion; his fellow magisters had agreed that the Mentaran empire was to be the next target. There had been much discussion of ways and means, the best weapons and ship designs for the conquest. There was still some uncertainty, as spies had reported the brains possessed powerful repulsor beam technology which could potentially neutralize many of the people's available weapons. But were the Mentarans actually equipping their ships with these devices? More information was needed. Orders were issued to send the out-dated Monitor class ships to several Mentaran systems; these veteran ships and crews could still serve honorably in the coming conflict. Other orders were sent to worlds throughout the Conclave, finalizing designs and starting construction of many new warships....


Inherited turn:

Get the monitors moving, while focusing construction on Beamers (the existing design is not ideal, but RefSteel is right that it is good enough) and Omega bombers. The recently conquered machine world of 18 Sextans will be the rallying point for the fleet. I also adjust spy spending a bit, shuffle priorities at a few worlds, etc.

Things are quiet for a year or two as ships move into position. On T182, our spies manage to access a human research center; Planetology is chosen, hoping to get Controlled Radiated. Our spies come through and steal the tech. We can now colonize (or invade) any planet in the galaxy. Not wanting to be outdone by the spies, our own researchers complete Armored Exoskeleton the same year. Our only research choice is Andrium armor, which will be useful.

Planets throughout the Conclave are constructing warships for the upcoming campaign:

Our monitors have scanned the Mentaran ships, and most of the designs are not that scary. Lots of missiles, mostly, with some anti-matter bombs. The Sun Fire is a huge design with 32 ion cannon, but nothing else should present any ship to ship threat. The attack fleet is dispatched to the first target: the Einstein system. The enemy ships and defense bases present little resistance, but the Mentarans fight fiercely to defend their world.

Not quite enough troops in the first wave. But the second wave would easily clear out the remaining enemies and capture the planet the following year. A separate force takes Boas the same year. The obsolete tech Enhanced Eco Restoration would be secured from the conquered planets.

The rocks are delighted that we are attacking their enemies:

I take this opportunity of good will to negotiate a new trade deal with them, roughly twice the size of our existing pact.

Our old foes the Meklonar show up asking for peace:

I agree, since we have no intention of continuing the conflict and xenociding them.

On turn 186 our spies note that the rocks have discovered Battle Computer Mark VI. More computer tech for the rocks is not good news. However, they are willing to trade it to us for Personal Absorption Shield. I take the offer. The same year, the humans develop Star Gates. The Triumvirs are not willing to trade their newest tech, sadly. But they are willing to swap Reajax II fuel cells. (I thought I noted down what I traded, but apparently not. Sorry. It was a same tier swap, clean up tech I think?)

Our fleets continue advancing, with little resistance from the Mentarans. Getting enough ground troops to take the planets is the limiting factor; lots of spending on Eeco to force pop growth to replenish our forces. RefSteel would probably have managed one of his elaborate pop shuffling arrangements from back line planets through intermediate worlds; I did a little of that from our poor planets, but mostly just grew pop where I needed it.

A couple turns later, Advanced Soil Enrichment research completed. All our non-hostile worlds upgraded to Gaia status and built out the additional factories. Our only option to advance the tree was Complete Eco Restoration. Not a bad tech, but our excellent planetology skills are not helping as much as they might if we had more choices availaable.

The rocks show up and ask for a non-aggression pact. I agree, since we do not want to fight them right now anyway and better relations will help. On the same turn our spies report the humans have developed Cloaking Device, ECM 5, and Scatter Pack 7. The humans are really teching along at a tremendous pace.

Our force conquer Broglie, Piaget, Laue, and Fermi. On the last turn of my set, GNN gives us the 5 turn warning for the galactic council. Our scientists also discover Phasors, so we have an up-to-date range-2 weapon if we want it. Our options to advance the tree are Gauss Auto-cannon and Particle Beam. I choose particle beam.

Our spies report the humans have learned Anti-matter Torpedos. I have no idea how they are managing this much tech. They have less than half our population and production:

We have not talked to the birds for a while; I check with them and sign an updated trade agreement for triple our previous deal. I also trade Energy Pulsar to them for Terraforming+40, so next turn it should come in and we can add another 10 pop to all our worlds.

Looking at the pop numbers, we should be within a few votes of having a veto block once the new terraforming is done. (We do have a lot of pop in transports right now, as well. That did not count for votes in MOO; no idea if that has changed in RotP.) We also don't know exactly how many votes the Nazlok and Ursinathi have. But with the Kholdan Hive at war with the rocks, we should be safe in the upcoming council vote.

Notes for Dp101:

- We have ships over several Mentaran worlds, waiting for transports to arrive. The brains keep building bases each turn, but we can easily knock them back down.
- Ships are on the way to additonal Mentaran worlds. Watch out for the huge Sun Fires; nothing else has been much of a challenge.
- Our ground combat tech is better than the Mentarans. Even with the defense bonus we are doing better than 1:1. But not a whole lot better; plenty of transports are needed for big worlds.
- There are transports on the way to some of the newly captured worlds and several Mentaran worlds. Hopefully nothing will overflow, but keep an eye on them.
- The best world to leave the Mentarans is probably Vesalius in the north, as it is poor. The brains do have a couple worlds we do not have info on yet, so there might be a better candidate somewhere.
- We have gotten lots of tech recently, so many of our designs could be redone. I have stopped building ships except at our two ultra-rich worlds. We have a lot of ships available, with  18 Sextans being the old rally point (ships are still moving there) and Boas being the current rally point. Check them for fresh forces for at least the next few turns; there is a lot of stuff already moving.

Up now - Dp101
On deck...not sure? RefSteel?

Good luck!

[Fenn]

Good to see swift progress against the brains. Now that we have Phasors we don't need to worry about Repulsors and Heavy Ions any more, either. Looks like we're well on the way to a victorious conclusion to this game, barring some unforeseen disaster.

[Dp101]

Sorry, to clarify did you trade waste cleanup tech to the humans for their fuel cells? Because.. well, if you had done that I'd been mildly perturbed since that would be an awful trade, but I'm comparing known techs before and after your set and the humans gained no cleanup tech. Looks like it might have been advanced space scanner? We knew it already and they gained it before the end of the set, and I can't find any other same-tier techs that we had and they lacked. So I guess no issues after all!

Anyways, looks like good turns! Doing a bit of tweaking for starters (adjusting spying, no reason to be set to hide vs our current enemies, and the birds only have poor techs so we should just be hiding against them since we don't have a big enough computers advantage to safely clean them out) and will probably stare at ship designs before going further. I'm a bit perplexed by cancelling the mothership design entirely rather than replacing it with a tweaked version, but I guess it's not necessary, and I hadn't noticed the inertial stabiliser on the beamers which makes me not the biggest fan of the design due to awkwardness of how much it costs on larger ships (but the scaling is much much nicer than I recall, costing a bit under 5 times as much space compared to inertial stabilisers on a medium, going from 35 to 173, with total ship space being a bit over 5x as much from 320 to 1604, with both power and tonnage requirements being 5x the prior tier as you go up, so while an inertial stabiliser on a huge starts becoming horrendously large (696 total space) it's actually proportionally no bigger than on a small, it's just that that space could be used for so many more guns since they do not increase in size in the same way) but the fleet is evidently functional lol.

Really, the big thing I'm weighing up at the moment regarding designing new ships is whether to wait for more tech. Andrium over Zortrium isn't that big an upgrade, only 25% more HP and won't be live for a while, and the only decently-close techs are cloaking device (helps with miniaturisation somewhat but nothing else since iirc they're prohibitively expensive on huges) and BC7 (nice, but a bit under halfway to percentages), with ion drives still ages away as well. I feel like we've got good enough tech such that whatever we make now will last until the end of the game (or close to), but I realise I might just be impatient since autorepair huges tend to be my "comfort design" and I want one to play with lol.

I threw together a couple quick designs:

Dropping from manoeuvre 5 to 4 would give 1 more phasor, but that seems minimal. Bomb comparison is 30 antimatters to 12 omegas, I feel like halving the guns would be necessary if omega-Vs were used. The mixed beam layout on the design with heavy beams is due to no repulsor and wanting the efficiency of regular phasors (and the phasor counts should be balanced better, oops) but if one committed more to a heavy beam/repulsor loadout, 21 heavy phasors and 28 antimatter bombs (or another 4 heavy phasors) would be the result. The mixed layout is basically only in case we see opposing repulsor designs, but given that there aren't any, I'm tempted to go for it - at the same time, since huges take so long to build I have fears about futureproofing (or a lack thereof) if it turned out some of said designs showed up. Open to thoughts, even if probably unnecessary to do any of this at all lol.

[haphazard1]

Space scanner was the traded tech. I could not reecall what it was when I found I had not written it in my notes.

We can build some huges if we want, but we do not really need them to finish off the Mentarans. The Beamers and the small AM bombers have been quite effective, and the Omega bombers have also done quite well. The brains have not produced a repulsor ship design as of yet; until they do we probably can just continue to advance as fast as we can get troops forward to invade. So if we build huges it would probably be better to design them for whichever AI we plan to attack after the Mentarans. Some of them have much nastier weapons available than the brains and their missile-heavy designs.