[SPOILERS] Donovan Zoi and AdrienIer: Slümhund Millionaires!

[Donovan Zoi]

Fish site: I had seen the predicament about the Gems too but I'd like to stay the course for quite a few reasons.

Hill site for better defense against Gavagai
9 Moai tiles instead of 6
One additional mine - this city can be a production power house when needed
No guarantee of getting the island yet.
3 food allows us create another strong 3-whip Settler pump without having to borrow from other sities.

Let me know what you think.

In other news:
-Commodtay got the Oracle and chose a Classical tech, natch. They can run away with the game if they are not put in check by HAK, retep or Elkad. Elkad still has a huge swath of land that is there for the taking right now.

-GJ and Elkad are trading resources. One is an even trade (can't remember what) and the other is Joey gifting Ivory to Elkad. So we may need to strike sooner than I thought. I remember that you had earlier concerns regarding our rivals gifting that tech if we were too warlike, and we didn't have to do anything but assert ourselves a bit to cause that. I don't recall seeing two Ivory within Joey's borders but I'll check during the next turn.

-The founding of Niagara Falls has allowed for overseas trade, which gained us +1c for each of our cities. This has gotten us a bit closer to the 50% break even point, but not quite. So getting Currency next will get us even more if we land another city across the channel.

[AdrienIer]

Let me check ingame I'll answer you in 5mn

[AdrienIer]

First thing : I'd like to go 50% this turn and 100% next turn (we have just enough gold for that), it's better than 2t of 70% (we get 13 beakers in exchange of 5g, our beaker to gpt ratio is slightly under that so it's a net gain).

Moai should be in ivory island city, it has 13 sea tiles. Problem : it only has 1 20h forest to chop for it, so it will be a slow build. We should whip stuff to overflow into it.
Therefore, the cow site should be on the SE tile.
Argument for the SE tile : between the pike and the water tiles it has access to we'll see what's inside/around Kerkouane at all times which is good enough for defense, we'll have to keep a garrison there but we already knew that.
Less water for a better overall and long term city.
Gems to trade for other happy resources we'll need
Duquesne and Niagara falls are going to be great production cities already

We need to settle ivory city, horse/incense/fish city and retep's border city ASAP. Then deer city near Elkad. Then time to conquer Elkad ?

I'm really annoyed by Retep's passive acceptance of Commodtay's settler push. They can't have a big army to garrison all these cities. Maybe their reputation (especially Commodore's) is what's stopping him from reacting. Instead he settles in our direction...
CommoDtay have currency. Shit.
A new trick I just found : notice the difference when we look at Grimace from our perspective and from Commodtay's ?






Because CommoDtay knows Retep and we don't his diplo screen shows the war between Retep and Grimace and ours don't. This city is probably the reason for their war.




And it explains Retep's passivity towards Commodtay's settling. Even though it makes no sense because while it's 7 tiles from Retep's capital one of Com's cities is only 5 tiles away from it.

BTW I moved the WB in the west and Kerkouane is currently empty...




Edit : Hmmm it appears that this was slightly more than 5mn

[AdrienIer]

BTW I've written some instructions in signs underneath Niagara falls to optimize worker turns.

[Donovan Zoi]

That was my other plus re: Fish site. We can also raze Kerkouane to get our Original Gems location back.

I dunno, we lose a lot short term by going 1SE. And I am usually a long term strategist. We don't have that luxury now since we are in a race with retep and Gavagai for sites and not settling like originally planned will make us less competitive for those.

Moai works best in a city that can build it fast IMO. We can get it much more quickly at the original Fish site due to the additional mines. Plus the ivory site will take much longer to max out and use all those tiles.

There can never be too many production powerhouses.

I'd go 100%, then 50% because there is no going up from 100% next turn if we fall short. So if you can change that before retep plays that would be cool.

Sorry on the road for a few hours but please respond and I'll write more later.

[AdrienIer]

I'd really really like a stable friendly front somewhere. Elkad is setting up to be our main war target and GJ is probably going to be our continental rival, so I want Gavagai to be our friend. Honestly I don't think this city will give us much short term anyway (well maybe taking some mines from the capital would allow for a quick build). I don't want to stick to our original dotmap, disregarding the other players' cities, just because it was slightly better. This is also a problem of no city getting that gems (and it being in cultural contention for the whole game) vs a city getting it. And I think getting such a good tile is worth shifting things around.

For a ivory city moai build I'd put 1t into an axe or spear, 2 whip the axe/spear for more than 30h overflow, put overflow into moai for +60 something hammers, repeat until moai is done.

Unless we lose a bunch of commerce next turn 50% then 100% makes us more beakers than 2x70% (if would be like going 2x75%).

[Donovan Zoi]

Can't respond right now, but I will later.

[AdrienIer]

Sure, take your time, the city will be settled in 3t either way so we have some time to discuss it.

[AdrienIer]

Actually I just thought about it and the instructions I wrote beneath niagara are unnecessary. You can do the normal thing of roading the stone then roading the grassland tile then pasturing the cow.
Oh and the turn is up but I can't play it for now. You'll probably get the chance to play it before me.

[Donovan Zoi]

OK played the turn.

Forgot that we can't whip more than half the pop, so 2-whip of Settler will happen next turn, and we'll just grow Carillion from Size 3 to 6 for the next one. Once you see how quickly Carillion can get to Size 6 to pop another Settler, you should be convinced of the benefits of the Fish site. But by then it will be too late.

Didn't get to respond to some of your in game tags, but will by tomorrow. Pretty much out the door again for tonite.