[PB64] Lurking Randomly

[Mjmd]

Amica wouldn't have known about Naufs settler until the double move occurred. Therefore I think its fine by our current rules (which I've noted I hate but meh not the time).

It is also in the same turn order overall they've been playing and Nauf also double moved beforehand.

[Miguelito]

Yeah I also think there's no issue there, given the mutual double move. Also nauf himself wrote that he didn't expect to get the spot (and he himself acknowledged that peace under that circumstances wasn't the best decision, and yeah he's got that right as well).

[Psillycyber]

Of course, Fever Dream part deux is probably bound to get razed again in 10 turns anyways. It's just there for the cultural influence at this point.

If this pitboss had an Armageddon counter, Stephanos would be coming out to play about now.

Edit: By the way, no matter who ends up winning this match, everyone should get an honorary prize for contributing to the slowest global tech rate in pb history.

[Charriu]

Don't forget this is a random map. Tech rate is a lot higher on RBs usual lush maps

[Psillycyber]

Don't get me wrong, I love the slow tech pace. It has allowed momentum playstyles some breathing space and given players chances to bounce back after cutting their losses. It's 1300 AD and some players are still in the running largely coasting by off of doomstacks of late-classical units that they assembled for some momentum push that either didn't pan out or panned out only partially. In a normal game, those late-classical doomstacks would already be getting punished by the builders who teched up to rifles & cannons. It's cool to see momentum play not always have to be all-or-nothing.

[Mjmd]

They are on monarch though. I think the constant warring with very little gains has been a huge factor.

[Psillycyber]

Well, it looks like SD plans to whip his cities into a bloody pulp to get knights to beat back Ginger. And now I'm just noticing that there is a LOT of deadspace between civs, especially between Ginger and SD. (No doubt contributing to the sluggish tech rate; a lot of land going unworked). Taking on SD is going to be a slow and bloody affair, and I'm starting to wonder whether it would even be worth it for Ginger. Ginger can take Gorbachev and Brezhnev, but going beyond that is going to take forever. And the longer the campaign drags on, the more SD can whip and the more tempting it will be for a dogpile of Ginger to materialize.

There's still another option for Ginger: go after Gavagai with half his forces while keeping the other half on the defensive to guard against dogpiles. The other players can't finish Gavagai off because Gavagai is just prickly enough that it would require their main stack to commit to the effort and leave them vulnerable to a dogpile, but Ginger can guard against dogpiles with many fewer units once he gets to cannons. As good as cannons are on the strategic offense, they will absolutely slay in this era on the strategic defense. With 6 or 7 cannons and 15 knights left behind, there's no way Commodore or SD could make headway on the offense. Ginger would then have a free hand against Gavagai, and Amica/Nauf are unlikely to want to commit to a dogpile against Gavagai because of mutual distrust, so odds are, Ginger could have Gavagai almost all to himself other than maybe newly-settled Aksum, which Nauf could take.

[Charriu]

If I'm not mistaken then Amicalola and Naufraggar are back in their war turn order with Amicalola's double move in T190

[pindicator]

Ugh, in not sure I'm clear on this. I'm inclined to side with naufrager because Amicalola specifically states he saw the settler and could see how he double-turned nau on the first city - then did it again on a second cut. However, nau complicated the situation when he didn't stick to one side of the turn split either. They both seem to think they get the first half of any split. Amicalola isn't correct with his assertion that just because they were in a particular spot in one way that they stay on that split for eternity.

At the same time, with how often both sides are double-moving each other then how are we supposed to know who is supposed to be on which end of a turn split with the other?

[Miguelito]

Yes, seems like it (crosspost: agreeing with Charriu here). If I understand correctly, Amica twice answered a double move of nauf 's with their own one and on each founded a city. Which seems legit? I fear naufragar flipping the table though, but of course that can not weigh into our decision. Fwiw I think quoting lurker judgement to him is ok in this case.

Also Charriu, looks like Commodore has successfully turned you regarding nufragrance's true name