[SPOILERS] Serdoas thread

[Serdoa]

MWIN, you are right that peace would be easier. Even if I get nothing out of the deal, I might be able to get SleepingMoogle to agree not to take any gifts from TT. And I would also have an easier time fighting the naval battles.

Nevertheless, I have sent SleepingMoogle another request for peace (see below). If he declines again any sort of reparation, I will still accept peace (I will go forward and play the game now and accept it there) but I will keep it in mind. And if you ask what I mean with that, think about TT and horses

Request for peace to SleepingMoogle:

[COLOR="Pink"]SleepingMoogle,

I probably was not clear in my last email, sorry for that. Might be because I wrote it at 12 in the night. I do want peace with you, believe me. It simply would not be fun to go on with this game otherwise as it would be pretty obvious who will win it when we both stay at war. But understand also that I do want to have a chance to stay competitive with you and scooter. That will also help you, by ensuring that scooter cannot simply concentrate on you whereas you have to concentrate on us both.

And that gets us to the point where we are at right now: Do you want to find a solution for this issue together with me and discuss how much reparations should be payed or do you still insist on only offering a white peace without any reparations?

Kind regards,
Serdoa [/COLOR]

[Serdoa]

Turn played, peace accepted. Pretty sure SleepingMoogle won't give in anyway and even if, I simply won't hold the save longer than necessary for me to simply get around to it.

Well, what else? Oh, yeah, I wanted to give you an idea why I was so pissed that TT ceded two cities. Here is one reason:



Can you see the turn he realized that SleepingMoogle will start war with him and started to prepare for that? Yeah, me neither...

But at least now he is preparing:



Guess that will save him - and I am sure I've seen that before...

Oh, saving him against what you ask? This:



Yeah, not as impressive as if I had 50 knights there, I know

[Serdoa]

scooter had a talk with SleepingMoogle

[COLOR="Orange"]Serdoa,

SleepingMoogle is apparently mad at Twinkletoes for not keeping him properly updated about your movements, so he wanted out of the war. He's now worried that the two of us will dogpile him immediately. He also floated the idea of me allying with him against you, which I explained my way out of just like I've done before . One idea I threw out to him was a 3-way NAP between myself, you, and him until something like T140 - so there's time for tensions to ease. This would give you a chance to consolidate the land you will take from TT (which will be quite a bit), and it will benefit me as it will re-open my borders with Moogle for Lighthouse income. Ideally the end result is the two of us would be on top of the leaderboard with Moogle just behind us, we can pull away, and do what we'd like later in the game.

Really any "showdown" war with Moogle I'd like to put off, because colonizing all the land that's out there sounds fun, and if we killed him then it'd either just be a war between us next or a long race to peaceful victory between us - essentially a duel.

All that said, if you really want to just go at him once TT is gone, then that's a possibility too. I'd have to put some thought into it, but depending on timetables, I could be talked into it. [/COLOR]

Do I want a NAP till T140? Yes, I can consolidate - or I can simply not attack TTs island and instead go directly for SleepingMoogle. My economy is in bad shape, so it's probably a good idea to take more mature cities instead of TTs cities on the island which are probably not all that well developed anyway. But SleepingMoogle does have an army whereas I get the feeling that TT is only waiting for someone to put him out of his misery.

Decisions, Decisions...

[Serdoa]

I moved forward onto TTs cap (I think he build the great wall only so that he could whip away part of his population) and have switched to Bureaucracy and Caste System - I don't think I will need the whip anymore as I have an ally in scooter on one side and a NAP till T140 with SleepingMoogle on the other side. And at T140 we will not slave units but draft them - or maybe not, we'll see.

Anyway, two screenies which I thought are interesting. First the modifiers the game sets between the other players and myself



Pretty much as it really is - shows in my opinion that the diplomacy-system in Civ4 was not all that bad and surely a 100 times better then what we have right now in Civ5.

I have also looked at the civis-tab (I think the first time in this game) and look



scooter has no religious civic, SleepingMoogle does not use Bureaucracy and TT does not use HR? Guess I can somehow understand SleepingMoogle (we were at war and he probably did not want to have a turn of anarchy at that time), but scooter? He is expanding, so wouldn't something like Org.Rel not be really helpful in getting stuff done? And TT - no HR? Why? Even if you do not build extra units, simply the one garrison unit is giving you another happy - I do simply not see any reason not to adapt it.

Well, anyway, I also did do some mismanagement this turn. For example as said earlier I revolted to Caste and Bureau because I am used from normal speed to revolts for 1 or 2 civis - but on quick speed, I could have waited 2 turns and got banking and then switch to Mercantilism as well. Though thinking about it, I am not even sure if I want to switch to that - no foreign trade routes for one specialist. Not sure how much those foreign trade routes get me over non-foreign trade routes - probably something like 2-3 commerce/city? So a free merchant specialist should probably offset that loss and at the same time the others would lose trade routes as well. Hm... something to think more about.

[Serdoa]

Guess I was right with SleepingMoogle. He switched this turn to Bureau, Caste and Mercantilism. Oh, and before he did that, he started a golden age.

Looking at the demos right now makes me sad :/ I think I did not do that bad a job at the beginning but SleepingMoogle was better in expanding. And after that inital phase I simply started to many wars. I should have let TT be TT and go settle the islands.

Now, what to do? I have no fu.... clue

[Serdoa]

What? Who says I'm dead?

[Serdoa]

I got Alphabet now - update on the techs the others have is coming sometimes these days. But they are in front of me except TT - who would have thought that?

In war news, TT has killed of his troops - probably so that I can gain no experience and Great General Points. Well, I don't care. I could have walked into the city of Zama but I think if I do that, that area will be screwed by the massive culture SleepingMoogles cities have already put in. I simpy let it sit there and probably will do so for some time, till it is TTs last city.

[Serdoa]

I have made peace with TT after he offered it ingame and send me an email. That is my latest reply:

[COLOR="Pink"]TT,

I have accepted your offer ingame. You are right with Zama, it does have strong cultural buildings. Hopefully that will be enough that I can hold it somehow, we'll see. You will also see that SleepingMoogle borders expanded quite a bit. I had expected that, but nonetheless, I am wondering if he did produce culture there, just so he would take over the area when I take Zama or because he had to fight Zamas culture. Well, for what reason he did it, its not the greatest thing of the world.

I can give you a clue about the east and even trade you the worldmap which is pretty complete except for some black dots in there - not scouted by me, mind you, all scooters work but I got it traded and don't think it is a problem to retrade it with you. There are more islands and then it seems another continent similar to the one we started at.

Regard the NAP: I don't have an issue having a game long NAP - meaning I won't attack you as long as you do not work with an enemy of mine or start to try to culture pressure me. Oh, and settlements need to be discussed beforehand. Mind you, not on your eastern part of the map, thats all yours. Also I don't mind for SleepingMoogle or scooters eastern part But my eastern part should not be settled except by myself. But basically, what I want to say is that we work together and not against each other and try not to piss the other one off. Sounds fair?

As I won't attack in the near future (like the next 30 turns) anyone, Janns wouldn't really be needed. But Cavs or Cannons could be interesting in the future. For now, I would propose the following deals:

- Open Borders mutually without scouting but moving through if necessary (telling the other one beforehand that we will move through his borders)
- Map Trade

And when you have seen the updated world map and have a better idea what is out there (I think part of "your" east is still black, but as everything is pretty equal, that shouldn't be an issue, the resources are always nearly the same on all islands) we can talk about if you want to have some settlers and workers for gold. Both SleepingMoogle and scooter have a golden age now and if I should have any chance to catch up and influence this game (and punish the one who betrayed us both) I will have to get my research going so that I do not fall too much back.

Let me know what you think about that. [/COLOR]

I already told scooter that I have made peace with TT also. I guess he doesn't care anymore but whatever. And no, there is no reason why I have done that except for what I told scooter in my email: It just was not fun. War Weariness in RL it seems.

[Serdoa]

TT and I had some more talks. He has now the worldmap and one of my spare corns. He has never replied back to my offer of 2 settlers and a galley for 190 gold (thats pretty good I think).

1000 AD update will come sometimes I guess, for now:

Techs known as of 960 AD:

[html]Tech Maya | Inca | Ottoman | India

Fishing x | x | x | x
The Wheel x | x | x | x
Agriculture x | x | x | x
Hunting x | x | x | x
Mysticism x | x | x | x
Mining x | x | x | x
Sailing x | x | x | x
Pottery x | x | x | x
Animal Husbandry x | x | x | x
Archery x | x | x | x
Meditation x | x | x | x
Polytheism x | x | x | x
Masonry x | x | x | x
Horseback Riding x | x | x | x
Priesthood x | x | x | x
Monotheism x | | x | x
Bronze Working x | x | x | x
Writing x | x | x | x
Metal Casting x | x | x | x
Iron Working x | x | x | x
Aesthetics x | x | x | x
Mathematics x | x | x | x
Alphabet | | | x
Monarchy x | x | x | x
Compass x | x | x |
Literature x | x | x | x
Calendar x | x | | x
Construction x | x | x | x
Currency x | x | x | x
Machinery x | x | | x
Drama x | | | x
Engineering x | x | | x
Code of Laws x | x | x | x
Feudalism x | x | x | x
Optics x | | |
Music | | | x
Philosophy x | x | |
Civil Service x | x | x | x
Theology | | |
Divine Right | | |
Paper x | x | x |
Guilds x | x | | x
Nationalism | x | |
Banking x | | | x
[/html]

So, put down in relation to me:

Maya:
+2216: Compass (369), Optics (554), Philosophy (739), Paper (554)
-831: Alphabet (277), Music (554)
Total: +1385

Inca:
+3326: Compass (369), Philosophy (739), Paper (554), Nationalism (1664)
-1865: Monotheism (110), Alphabet (277), Drama (277), Music (554), Banking (647)
Total: +1461

Ottoman:
+923: Compass (369), Paper (554)
-4572: Alphabet (277), Calendar (322), Machinery (647), Drama (277), Engineering (924), Music (554), Guilds (924), Banking (647)
Total: -3649