WW 18 Siege of the Dragon! (Game Thread)

[Ichabod]

Serdoa - I'll respond the same others did to me trying to lynch you over Azza. If you're right, doesnt that mean Zak and Q are teammates? So why not just vote Q?

Not necessarily, in my opinion. Even if Qg is innocent and Serdoa was mistakingly accusing him, that doesn't change the fact that Zakalwe made a case against Serdoa based on an argument he used against Qg that Zak also had used against Mattimeo earlier (the main point of Serdoa's case against Zak, as far as I understand). A zakalwe wolf could attack Serdoa for a lot of other reasons than just to defend Qg.

Regarding Serdoa's case, I don't see it. I remember that my thought on your case against Qg, Serdoa, was that he made a non-useless vote (voting the guy who was being bandwagoned at the time) calling it useless. That's what i had in my mind as your main point and I think that's what Zakalwe called you about when he started accusing you. I see that you made the same argument against Qg that Zak made against Mattimeo, but, like I've said, I think Zak's reason was a different one.

I also think that Zak can be a bit "unfair" (not exactly the right word, I don't think he has any ill-intent) when he makes his accusations as a villager. Though I didn't understand exactly what are you calling wrong evidence used by Zakalwe, so I have to reread and judge it.

Right now, I'm more confident about voting for waterbat.

[waterbat]

I feel no obligation to post here. I did feel some obligation to spend 2:00-6:00am working on the skimmer.

I think I'm in the lead now as far as mislynch goes. There doesn't seem to be an easy self defense vote. I feel Serdoa is following a pattern I did before in previous game. Tired of zak's latching onto me without abating, I finally convinced myself he had to be scum.

Can someone do a tally? I'm phone restricted all day ( not as badly as qgq thank god )

[uberfish]

@Bigger my point wasn't that player A defending B means they have to be of the same alignment, but rather that the specific motivation you thought serdoa had (information denial) didn't really fit with Azza being town. Scum might defend innocents for other reasons, such as to gain village cred or to make other players on the wagon look bad.

@Ichabod what I thought was weird about your play is specifically your exchange with Pind in the early part of the day, I don't understand why you would single Pind out for not voting you for mayor when in general people weren't voting you for mayor anyway.

@Waterbat who do you suspect? You've said Q was a random vote, then a real vote, then an information vote, and then said "I'm willing to explore other targets" without, you know, mentioning other targets.

[novice]

So, we know now that

- he [Zakalwe] accused me despite us both making the exact same argument (just me doing it for both Q and Mattimeo and he only doing it for Mattimeo)
- he added obvious wrong "evidence" to his case
- he voted the whole first day only for people voting for Q and always with the reason that they vote for Q

Still no one interested in joining me on him?

Well, I'm interested to hear Zakalwe's response, at least.

[Selrahc]

People have been a little too heated for my tastes today. Can we simmer down a little? I don't think insults are ever a justifiable part of the game. We're all here to have fun.

I'm slightly annoyed at my post today where I wrecked my Slowcheetah plan. I'd been aiming to throw weird at him, and see how he reacted. With a presupposed hypothesis that a wolf would be more likely try to disengage/not react than a villager. By stating that hypothesis in the thread, I wrecked my stratagem.

So, having realized that a few hours later I switched to my top suspicion, which is currently Mattimeo. It's day 1, so obviously nothing truly incriminating has materialized yet. I do think his general behaviour has been more focused on saving himself rather than helping the group, and that he has been a little surly.

The same basically applies to Azza too, but I'm getting more of a vibe off Mattimeo.

[waterbat]

I never said qgqqqqq was a random vote or specifically an information vote.

I felt a gut reaction reading his play as scum. Noted it for later. I did not vote in that post.

Serdoa comes on and has similar reaction. Firms up my suspicion, so then I followed Serdoa.

It's as simple as that. After a few more followed I made the comment that we'll get some info out of it. In fact I'm happy still with that. I never said the reason was informational. My reason was gut + a decent case by someone who comes off villagers to me.

[slowcheetah]

Right, Ive skimmed the thread. First impressions;

1) No specific wolftells really stand out, with everybody pretty much playing in the style I'd imagine them to.
2)Only slight expception to this is Lewwyn appears to be on the sidelines less than usual, when I've played with him and he's been villager he's tended to lay very low on the first day and then build up a head of steam through the 2nd and 3rd days then get nightkilled. Not necessarily a wolftell, but in this meta he could have a unique role.

I had a more thorough look back through and this post interested me:
Lewwyn post 222:

waterbat Wrote: If he's innocent, I can certainly understand why Serdoa is voting Zak. If he's not village, he's playing up the fact that he's been "wronged" for trying to contribute. Someone mentioned possible dragon/SK role for Serdoa - I can see this as well. A little more upset than normal that he is being suspected.


Who brought up that idea? I don't remember. Serdoa as SK would make sense because he's definitely reacting strange.

Lewwyn wrote:

Just a mild point but it's interesting that Lewwyn kept this in the limelight. Trying to subtly reinforce suspicion.

3) Selrahc's lurker play makes sense if the lurker play was designed to draw me out (I would have actually accepted the challenge, but I couldn't think of a game Id be able to win at :P)

4) The Zak, Serdoa, Azza, Qgqqqq malarky is awash with anger and hasn't wrung through my brain properly yet. However, the main suspects probably come from there.

5) As I remember, Azza hasn't made a single case, or done anything aside from question his attackers. As a lurker lynch he looks the best option on a day with few tells.

Azza

Now to reread and try and wring some further sense.

[waterbat]

Other suspects? I like a few cases, namely Mattimeo and I also got a wry weird vibe off the pindicator - ichabod interaction. Not sure that means anything. Noted it for later.

As far as day 1 goes, I'd be willing to vote Mattimeo on what's been presented. I'm not crazy about being 100% sure. Trying to be 100% sure on prior day 1s was A lesson I won't repeat.

[slowcheetah]

3) Selrahc's lurker play makes sense if the lurker play was designed to draw me out (I would have actually accepted the challenge, but I couldn't think of a game Id be able to win at :P)

Actually thinking about it that might be quite a nice wolf ploy on the first day, come up with a strategem which requires little commitment, then explain the strategem, purposefully causing it to implode. This doesn't leave much of a trail, you can use it as an excuse to not get day 1 lynched, and you then become more active later when more is revealed and it's easier to navigate.

I still think Selrahc's done more than Azza though.

[slowcheetah]

Lewwyn post 227

Beyond that I'm also still interested in Mattimeo who I think has overreacted suspiciously. Also the Ichabod/Pindicator relationship is weird.

Waterbat post 278

Other suspects? I like a few cases, namely Mattimeo and I also got a wry weird vibe off the pindicator - ichabod interaction. Not sure that means anything. Noted it for later.

As far as day 1 goes, I'd be willing to vote Mattimeo on what's been presented. I'm not crazy about being 100% sure. Trying to be 100% sure on prior day 1s was A lesson I won't repeat.

That first sentence has eeriely similar wording. Coincidence?