WW21 - The Professor Is Dead [game thread]

[Serdoa]

I should add this, Serdoa. If you see the light and lynch Mattimeo, I promise you a fair trial.

That may sound like a joke, but it's not.

I sounds for me much like the bullying I was talking earlier about already in connection with someone else. You pretty much try to bully me into giving in to your (and novices) view. I mean heck, you basically tell me here "Switch your vote now, otherwise if one of the others switches, you can be certain that I'll vote to lynch you tomorrow and won't listen to you". If thats your stance, fine. Fits pretty much for me for wolf-zakalwe. Doesn't fit with village-zakalwe. Vote stays.

And now I'll comment your other post.

[novice]

I should add this, Serdoa. If you see the light and lynch Mattimeo, I promise you a fair trial.

That may sound like a joke, but it's not.

I sounds for me much like the bullying I was talking earlier about already in connection with someone else. You pretty much try to bully me into giving in to your (and novices) view. I mean heck, you basically tell me here "Switch your vote now, otherwise if one of the others switches, you can be certain that I'll vote to lynch you tomorrow and won't listen to you". If thats your stance, fine. Fits pretty much for me for wolf-zakalwe. Doesn't fit with village-zakalwe. Vote stays.

And now I'll comment your other post.

He's promising you a fair trial and you read it as the opposite?

And earlier, you said about my post on Mattimeo: '(imo your post stated pretty much: "if anyone comes to defend you, it is obvious that he has to be the wolf just from the possible pairings left")' - when I didn't say anything about anybody defending Mattimeo.

It seems unlike you Serdoa to extrapolate this much from other players' posts. Your pet peeve is players misrepresenting what others player say.

[Serdoa]

I guess you might say I've been waiting to see where the chips will fall, Serdoa. In other games where I've been under the gun, I have learned the importance of not alienating fellow villagers by going on premature counter attacks.

I talked about defending, not attacking zak, so that argument here makes no sense for me. I think you simply waited for the votes to go away because that happens very often. You simply didn't take into account how small this game is, what makes it much more unlikely that the votes go away.

Still, a Serdoa+Mattimeo pair is increasingly making sense to me. Serdoa has been telling Mattimeo repeatedly to get his act together, with no retorts at all from Mattimeo.

I asked once why he isn't speaking at all and I asked both him and Lewwyn at that time because they WERE quiet. Please point to the other occasions where I told him to get his act together.

I could try hitting you with a wall of quotes but I'm confined to my iPad.

Point to the post numbers simply. But yeah, I guess your real issue is that there are none.

The meta also implicates them, with the only two claimed vanilla roles. And I think my own role PM might be phrased slightly differently if there were vanilla villagers out there. It just says I'll determine my target's abilities. There's no "if any" qualifier.

Apart from that a wolf could lie about what his PM says, why should Azza give away that there are also vanilla villagers in your role PM? Your argument here is basically "Azza didn't tell me information that I didn't need and that is never told, so they have to be wolves". Really?

If Serdoa refuses to budge, I kind of have to assume he is scum, anyway. Otherwise the game will be lost either way, with his vote plus the two scum votes.

Right, because why assume that I am a villager that is misguided? No no, I HAVE to be scum. All you do with this post is trying to antagonize me, so I attack you in a way that you can paint as scummy. I really don't see you making any points actually neither for your innocence nor for anyones else guilt EXCEPT for telling us that Mattimeo and I have to be scum because we have vanilla roles.

Mattimeo just said he'd be gone until the deadline, while keeping his vote on me. He is also pointing at Novice as my scum buddy but at the same time agreeing that Serdoa is innocent for pretty much the same set of reasons.

I don't see that zak. Mattimeo states that novice could be your scum-buddy because he is defending you all day. And he is right in that regard, because novice doesn't even consider you in the slightest anymore. When directly asked he states that you could maybe blabla, but when you look at his actual posts he never considers you for real.

I don't do that. I didn't want to vote you the first two days but I still did consider your play. And today I'm probably the one making the most points for your guilt. So how are those the same set of reasons at all?

And just to make that clear: The above is not meant to imply that Mattimeo is innocent. If we do not lose today as I stated I will consider him as well tomorrow if I am still alive. As of now NO ONE has given me reason to believe he is innocent. What certainly is also partly because we didn't catch a wolf and so it is harder to get a clear picture. But zak is simply giving me the most reasons to believe he is scum.

Yeah I could see Serdoa+Mattimeo as scum.

Lynching Mattimeo seems like the best option. He's pulling his punches, just making small snide retorts when he's pushed. And Zak's point on Mattimeo's inconsistency with regards to Serdoa and me is well taken.

Why could you see me and Mattimeo as scum? I mean apart from that everyone can be scum with everyone except oneself? As shown above the arguments zak made are partly not even true.

And how is what you describe different to Mattimeos normal play as villager? Again, not saying that makes him innocent but still, if that is your sole argument for him it is kinda weak.

Lastly, what is your take on the iconsistency? Where do you see it?

[novice]

I asked once why he isn't speaking at all and I asked both him and Lewwyn at that time because they WERE quiet. Please point to the other occasions where I told him to get his act together.

In addition to that post, you also had several posts earlier advocating lurker lynches, where you defined Mattimeo as a lurker.

Lastly, what is your take on the iconsistency? Where do you see it?

I have been considering Zakalwe today. I've ended up thinking he's probably innocent and I'm defending him. Mattimeo thinks this makes me a likely scum buddy for Zak.

You have been defending Zakalwe for most of day 1 and day 2. Yes you've said he /could/ be scum, but you've acted as if you would rather lynch anyone but him.

So yeah, I think it's inconsistent by Mattimeo that he considers me a possible scum buddy for Zakalwe, but also thinks that you're not.

[zakalwe]

When it comes to defending, I think I have addressed all arguments brought against me, Serdoa. I don't think there's anything new on the table that I have ignored. People are just saying I'm scummy without providing much in the way of concrete reasons. There's a lot of that going on, though. I think it's an endgame symptom. And you may be right that I'm doing the same thing against you. It's a bit of meta mixed with a bit of gut feeling. I am voting for Mattimeo, though. Not you. And I'm not trying to antagonize you.

Lewwyn, where do you stand?

[zakalwe]

Look, Serdoa, if you really are innocent then you need to put your vote on Mattimeo. Because it could be Mattimeo and Novice, and it could be Mattimeo and Lewwyn. It's not me, though. It could even be Novice and Lewwyn, and then we lose. But we can't cover all possibilities, and that one seems least likely to me.

[novice]

Serdoa, Mattimeo, Lewwyn: Do you think I'm scum? If not, we need to agree on a target, right? If the villagers split their votes we lose.

[Lewwyn]

Serdoa, Mattimeo, Lewwyn: Do you think I'm scum? If not, we need to agree on a target, right? If the villagers split their votes we lose.

alright i think you are my strongest village lean and I most confident in matti so being one of the. Scumbiddies so mattimeo

On phone btw[/color]

[Mattimeo]

Agree with novice that Lewwyn does not seem that likely as scum - especially with commuter, if the ability-seer turns out to be evil.
However, the rest of the post(s) seem much more in line with "if I can get anyone other than zak lynched, we'll win immediately" rather than "if zak is lynched, I'm pretty sure we lose immediately"...

Maybe he was referring to me in the second sentence. So in other words, "the rest of Novice's post(s) seem much more in line with "if I can get anyone other than zak lynched, we'll win immediately" rather than "if zak is lynched, I'm pretty sure we lose immediately"..."

It's what he accused me of earlier, at least.

Not entirely sure where the other two picked up a switch from talking about novice's reasoning to talking about Lewwyn's posts, something which were never mentioned...

Still, a Serdoa+Mattimeo pair is increasingly making sense to me. Serdoa has been telling Mattimeo repeatedly to get his act together, with no retorts at all from Mattimeo.

And what possible purpose could such retorts accomplish? It's not like he's attempting to pass off an egregious falsehood that requires correction.

Mattimeo just said he'd be gone until the deadline, while keeping his vote on me. He is also pointing at Novice as my scum buddy but at the same time agreeing that Serdoa is innocent for pretty much the same set of reasons.

Yes, the behaviours of Serdoa and novice have been identical today, hence why identical reasonings as to their classification.

[novice]

Yes, the behaviours of Serdoa and novice have been identical today, hence why identical reasonings as to their classification.

But Mattimeo, if I'm Zak's scumbuddy for defending him today, why isn't Serdoa his scumbuddy for defending him on day 1 and 2?