It took me some time to figure out why you couldn't 2-whip the settler, of course 2-pop whips give 50h not 60 now. 3-whipping is not very efficient, only 70h for 3 pops.
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[SPOILERS] Donovan Zoi and AdrienIer: Slümhund Millionaires!
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(May 2nd, 2015, 17:51)AdrienIer Wrote: It took me some time to figure out why you couldn't 2-whip the settler, of course 2-pop whips give 50h not 60 now. 3-whipping is not very efficient, only 70h for 3 pops. I agree, but the alternative is to wait until 50 shields have accumulated to 2-whip, which could take much longer than having a city grow 3 sizes while getting to 30 hammers (a task in itself). We need to be a bit unconventional now, especialy to capture as much of the remaining land as possible. I just realized that retep is IMP as well, which explains the rapid move towards us a bit. Beating him to as many island cities as possible should be a primary objective. Just How Unconventional? Which leads me to the discussion re: the Fish site. There is nothing more unconventional than leaving a Gems tile on the board. Also, I am not as myopic as to think that we must adhere to our original at plans at all costs, regardless of new developments. That is not my position at all here. The fact is that the Fish site blows away the Gems site on pretty much all counts. Both proposed sites have a lot of GL tiles with no access to fresh water, especially the Gems site. This makes using Lighthouse and water tiles preferable in the mid-growth stage, with Moai being the best way to take the sting out of using so many of said tiles. Even so, using them would still provide a much needed commerce boost, so it's not all bad. So why is Moai better at the Fish site as opposed to the Ivory one? -It is superior in growth and production, making Moai more valuable earlier in the game. We'll get it built faster and be able to use more of the tiles faster. -It would also be connected to our main empire, so has the versatility of toggling between western expansion or mainland needs. -Much quicker recovery from multi-pop whips. I just think that Moai is more awesome when it supports a city that already has a decent production base. Plus with the added growth, the site is just that much more verstaile. But what about those Gems? -We already have Gems, so getting the per city benefit is not at issue. -We lose the opportunity for trade, but will already have plenty of resources once we have Markets and Forges. Also, no health issues in any city for the foreseeable future. -Yes, we lose the 6 gold from mining. But this shortfall will be paid for via additonal Moai water tiles due to quicker growth, as well as the commerce from any cities we found that would not be possible via the other site. Plus we have seen how these high gold tiles can limit growth in order to utilize them. {Sigh}. Are you finished, Donovan? Not quite  - The Fish site allows us a great western harbor from which to launch our western expansion. Salmon Falls and the Gems site are not positioned as well to capitalize in this. - The Fish site not only gets protection and an extra hammer by founding on the hill, but it also is founded far enough away to hopefully project our good intentions toward Gavagai for now. - Lastly (and this is huge). We are now in 8th place right now in Crop Yield on the demographics screen, while doing quite well on all other stats. We had been doing much better across the board though, so the key to getting back in the race against our betters in concentrating on growing our cities more quickly.  The Settler is sitting on my proposed site now and the Cow is pastured and roaded, but we can found either site next turn. I really hope I can get you to see the benefits of choosing the Fish site. (May 4th, 2015, 01:04)Donovan Zoi Wrote: So why is Moai better at the Fish site as opposed to the Ivory one? -It also has lots more land tiles that you might rather work (like 2/0/1 cottages) -The SE city can be made a good production city via workshops even without Moai -Do we really want to heavily whip the Moai city ? (May 4th, 2015, 01:04)Donovan Zoi Wrote: I just think that Moai is more awesome when it supports a city that already has a decent production base. Plus with the added growth, the site is just that much more versatile. Depends on what you call decent. I'd rather see the Moai double the hammer output of an otherwise mediocre island city : making a mediocre city good is slightly more valuable in my eyes than making a good city very good. It depends on circumstances of course, but in this case ivory city is really calling for it. (May 4th, 2015, 01:04)Donovan Zoi Wrote: But what about those Gems? Trade is also good to create good relations with someone else. And that particular tile is 1/2/6 improved (I think) so it's not as bad as the northern gems in terms of growth hindrance. It would be a good tile even at 1/2/3. (May 4th, 2015, 01:04)Donovan Zoi Wrote: {Sigh}. Are you finished, Donovan? -The SE site has a similar potential to be our main western base. -No extra hammer on a GL hill. Protection from a Gavagai is ok but we'd still be pretty far from his city. I mean his city is probably farther from his cap than either our proposed sites are from ours, we're still giving him a fair/almost in his favor border. -We need more cities. The CY won't rise that much with that plant, it will have to wait 10t to hook either seafood. Actually the other point in favor of settling SE is that we could get the crab in the first ring, no need to wait 10t for it : in the short term it's probably better. I don't think it will change the face of our game (well in a way the Moai's position is a big deal) so if you're really set on settling on spot I won't veto it (not that I do have any kind of veto power).
May 5th, 2015, 02:07
(This post was last modified: May 5th, 2015, 02:07 by Donovan Zoi.)
You'll probably be happy as I went ahead with the Gems site. Either site would be fine, but we really could use some gold. Plus we get 2-3 additional chops into the city than the Fish site would have. I am a bit bummed that you moved the FW from the forested hill since I was in the process of double chopping a Granary. I ended up moving him back.
Now I am off to sleep. I'll post more when I can.
May 5th, 2015, 08:03
(This post was last modified: May 5th, 2015, 08:06 by Donovan Zoi.)
Yeah, I will never plant more than 1 FW on a forested hill in order to keep the others active, so if you ever see that it means I want to chop it.
For the next couple turns, are you okay with me playing? Only because I am not used with communicating on the map and need to get used to doing so. Plus my turns take long enough as it is (#OCD).  But feel free to go into the game and tag for me while I practice my own tagging.Do you know what the cutoff for food storage is for a city in order for a completed Granary to save food for the next size? In other words, once we chop the Granary, does Sainte-Foy need to be 11/22 or under? If so, I might need to work a bum tile for a turn. I already activated the Crab in Sainte-Foy (SF2?) with our fishing boat to get the 2c instead of 2h. We are already under 40% for break even and on a slow crawl to Currency. Went to 100% (6 turns) this turn, using up 47 of our 83g. I'll probably use up the rest of next turn at 70-80% before dropping to 0% again. Once we get some Markets (in at least the Big 3), we should get some relief on the next tech. We officially met retep this turn. He has 7 cities. Our Axeman encountered a Chariot but is on a forested hill, so I don't expect any trouble. But just in case, I directed one of the Chariots into the Galley and dropped him off in NF. I also started a Spear in Duquesne to move there, which we will have in 2 turns. Switched SFalls to a Settler and can 1-whip it in 4 turns. Carillion in on a growth path to get another settler withing 5-7 turns, I believe.
I don't mind letting you actually play, I'll try to log in regularly to put up signs and comment. If I understand it right if we finish the granary at 12/22 we'll only get it at 10 or 11 as the city grows instead of 12. I can't guarantee that I understand it right though
 Maybe get back down to 0% this turn ? Unless it's just a turn away of course. Yeah I'm going to nag you about binary research for the whole game. Settler planning is good.
We were at 0% for the last 3 turns actually, I just wanted to put some beakers into the tech, so it really shouldn't matter when we toggle it. Especially since our 100% is at -47gpt and our 0% at 28-30gpt.
 I can go down to 0% next turn instead of the 70-80% though.Currency should open us up to a more workable binary plan, but we just have to trudge along in the meantime. |