[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Whosit]

So here's that reply.

Dear Whosit,

I've been somewhat following score raises and I think there are few others that have their 2nd city up and Sullla's team was probably 1st one couple of turns before us.

So far we haven't met enyone, but we naturally know there are others around also in our continent. It is just matter of time when we meet someone else.

plako

So plako is looking at scores, too. I'm going to assume it's more than "somewhat," although looking back, I gave about as much away, myself.

Finally, Animal Husbandry is in, and I can begin the long 14-turn march to Iron Working. I imagine that this will take the better part of two real-time weeks. However, this most recent tech has revealed something quite interesting:





There are also horses in what would have been the third ring of Mortius' capital. So, everyone is going to have horses. Seoul's borders will expand in a couple of turns, and I imagine that they will pasture those horses. I don't really have a spare unit to spy on that, but I'll check it out sooner or later.

The good news is that the Korean horse source is relatively close to me. If I put a road up to the circled red tile, I can quickly move towards their horses and disable them if it comes to war. Should they decide to put a city directly ON the Horses, things would get more "interesting," but it should still be doable.

I will make certain to field several spearmen. They may not be as fast as Chariots, but they can certainly hold their own against them. So long as Korea does not find Copper or Iron, I should have the advantage.

Both of Korea's towns grew this turn, and they whipped P'yongyang, probably a Monument. 35 hammers are invested in something in Seoul. I'm going to guess a Barracks, but I suppose that I'll see.

I think that I'll have to spend a little more time in my sandbox sim to fiddle with the Iron Working path, but if I recall, I should still get it by T62. 14 turns from now. A lot will depend on where that falls . . . .

Nothing else to do now but speculate. I should get vision into P'yong in . . . 3 turns.

[Jabah]

A city 1NE of your original site looks quite nice, with crab+horse+sheep if I can see right (add a few hills, being coastal and with fresh water). But I guess you will not build another city before knowing where Iron is

[Whosit]

A city 1NE of your original site looks quite nice, with crab+horse+sheep if I can see right (add a few hills, being coastal and with fresh water). But I guess you will not build another city before knowing where Iron is

Hmm, you're right, that could be a rather nice spot. But, yes, where my third city goes will be dependent on where Iron is. Needless to say, lack of any Iron is going to throw my plans into disarray. However, let it not be said that Whosit goes without any backup plans. So far, things seems to be going my way, more or less, in regards to Korea and metal. I think that I may have Bib Fortuna scout to the west in an arc, that is, get a good idea of the terrain around Korea rather than beelining to the next Civ. Contact would be good, but knowing what resources Korea may be able to grab is probably more important. True, I don't think that they have Copper access now, but nothing is stopping them from settling a 3rd city to get some.

Regarding Iron again, based on the time frame I imagine that I am working in, city 3 will most likely settle to get Iron in the 1st ring, perhaps even ON the Iron if necessary. I would only take Iron in the 2nd ring if the location somehow made it so fantastic that it would be insane to settle 1st ring. Of course, this means that my Iron City may end up being a junk city just to get a resource, something I really like to avoid, but the general terrain that I can see is decent enough that I could always cottage grasslands or something.

What I REALLY want to get, though, is that northern area. Marble, Sugar (well, later), Rice, water, seems like a good deal up there. Again, after Pottery, I may do Writing, Aesthetics, and Literature to make a Great Library run using the Marble. I could probably build it in Regals Reach if I have to (though the Heroic Epic will go there), but if Korea isn't an issue, I could settle one of those river-side cities and just chop it out! The crab location would be best, since it could feed a couple of natural Scientists and, especially with a Forum, get me a few Great Scientists to help fuel the economy. Everyone with the Philo trait will have a real tech advantage, unless the squander it.

Sullla, surely the crowd favorite, doesn't seem to be the type to squander these opportunities. Actually, I was in the PB1 thread and read regoarrarr's post-count theory. Heh. At least I'm 3rd in views! But, whatever, I'll play my best game and it's still early, though there are so many things that can go wrong. There are many things that can go right, but I try not to think about them. Still, best-case scenario: I conquer Korea and have free reign to spread towards TWO former civ locations. Worst-case: Korea owns me. Probably not going to happen, but I could see this turning into a stalemate if I a) lack iron, b) attack too soon, c) attack too late.

Where was I going with this? Dunno. But, yeah, if I can land the G. Library it would do wonders for the economy, though I half-suspect some teams are heading in that direction already. I wonder if anyone has Writing already. Honestly, I'm not counting on the G. Library, but it would be wonderful if I could somehow snag it. The one downside to this is that teching Writing would force me to Open Borders with Korea per our treaty, but if I can play my cards right, and I get lucky, the results will already be determined.

Yeah. I'm wondering what you lurkers really think. Is the Whosit just off his rocker? Ha ha. Umm, but yeah, I'm going to have to find some way to make up for my lack of real economic traits. Expansive isn't terrible, but as LiPing said, Creative could have been more helpful, even just for the half-priced Libraries (and free border pops). Again, it's early in the game, but I imagine that I'll be running a hybrid economy. Cottages where I can get them, and Scientist Specialists elsewhere or in addition. That's also why I'm nervous about prepping for a war, because each hammer invested in a soldier is a hammer not invested in something potentially more useful. Though, I don't have a lot else to build at the moment. Also, my army will probably quickly become a drain on my economy as I start paying for them, plus the supply upkeep will be a killer.

So . . . I'll probably kill my economy before I can fix it. At least the Inca only had to go to war for a few turns! Yeah, Marble or none, the G. Library is probably a pipe dream, but you never know. If nothing else, I may be able to unlock the Heroic and National Epics. I definitely have to play smart here. Hmm, I'll also want Mathematics and Calendar relatively soonish to take advantage of the Calendar resources around here, though it's relatively low priority since there are other things to do.

OK, I'm cutting myself off. I'm just rambling now and making things up that probably won't happen. Still, a bad plan is better than no plan.

[Jabah]

regarding iron situation.
since Korea seems to be lacking metal, you could always build some (lots) of axes and a few spears (which you can already prebuild with a warrior waiting for copper to be connected) and conquer them with that.

One of your problem will be that you will have to tell Korea that you want to cancel NAP T56 (if I remember right) which is before knowing IW, won't you ?
So better be prepare for that time

[Whosit]

Wow, big news. One of Athlete's Warriors has stumbled upon Regal's Reach. This is bad! And good! But bad in a funny way. I'm not sure if the lurkers know, but Athlete's team has named their Civ "The Rebel Alliance." I'm a big Star Wars fan, so I've been planning to change my civ's name to "The Galactic Empire" (I considered "The Imperial Empire," but one of my friends pointed out that it is both inaccurate and redundant). However, I wanted to do this before I met him, and he already sent me a greeting, so maybe I'll just wait until I get Iron Working . . . . Darn. I had this great "You rebel scum!" message planned.

Anyway, geekiness aside:

Greetings Mighty Rome,

How goes the scouting battle against the wild animals? We have even seen men with clubs start to appear, pretty similar to Ellorrs .

Can you provide any information as to the lay of the land and possibly directions to those around you? I would assume to your S is coast which heads up and around to the east-->north. Along that coast the Incan's can be found followed by us, the Byzantines and then the greeks. We have heard word of the Indian's and Malinese but have yet to meet them. We did not see it as we made our way here but have heard the ruined zulu civilization was once to your east.

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

As you can see in this screen shot, the Rebels and Korea have not quite met yet:



I wonder if I could persuade Athlete to move NW? I'm going to reply pretty quickly, but I could probably say with close to honesty that he might as well go NW, since my borders will expand quickly and cut off access to the southern region. Hmm.

Another interesting picture, way up northeast:



I wonder if it's an island chain that circles the continent, or even a whole ring continent. The former is more likely, but the latter would be pretty cool.

And some Korea:



They have 50 hammers in Seoul. I took a double take before I remembered that they produced a second Worker recently. Speaking of, I'm switching my EPs to the Rebel Alliance until I can see their stats. He's the score leader at the moment, so might as well.

Now, let me draft a letter . . . .

Salutations Athlete of the Rebellious Ottomans,

It is a pleasure to make contact with another civilization, although I do hope that any rebellious activities will remain within your borders. I jest, and I hope no offense was taken. To be honest, Interim soldiers have encountered few animals; my scouts have been instructed to avoid the worst of them, such as the grizzlies. Thank you for the warning that more dangerous opponents lurk about. I will take care.

I am not sure if I can provide any information about the landscape that you do not know. Indeed, the land to my east curves to the north, and I have found the ruins of a city that must have once belonged to the Zulu. Honestly, my scouts have not made as much progress as I would have liked, the proof of which can be seen in that it was your civilization that discovered mine. However, the Korean people lie to the west. They are honest enough, though they are hard bargainers. If you wish to meet them, you may actually want to proceed to the northwest, as my citizens shall soon tame the nearby land and will cut you off from further travels to the south.

I am curious of what lies to the north, however. You must have come a long way. I am loathe to admit that I have yet been able to spare the manpower to scout the terrain much further north than your Warrior currently stands. I saw enough to believe that there was a sea to the north of my territory, but clearly it is not large enough to block off land travel.

If the Inca lie to the northeast, I expect to contact them soon, though whether or not my scout will be able to make it much further, I can not say.

In any case, I apologize for I realize that I have gone on for far too long. I hope to remain in contact with you and that our relationship will be mutually beneficial.

Best regards,

Whosit, Ruler of the Interim Imperium

Yeah, a bit wordier than I meant, but I am a windbag. I can only imagine how busy this thread will be once the e-mails start flying, though I will probably avoid posting long in-game chats directly here, as I've found those too much trouble to read through than they are worth in the reading.

I don't know what this contact means, but I'm going to guess that he is too far away to aid me or the Koreans in any military pursuit. Though I hope that he is also too far away to encroach on my territory. I'll have a scout out next turn, and his mission will be to further scout the northern region. Hopefully there will be a choke point that I can settle to secure the region.

[Whosit]

Oh, and Athlete finished turn, so I started mine. Seoul finished a Barracks, like I thought. Bib Fortuna found some more wheat to the west of P'yong. Also, a tile I thought was a forest hill was just a forest, so 2 more turns to get sight into the city.

Not too much else this turn. I need to spend some time in the sim before I decide exactly what to do.

There are 15 hammers now in Seoul. That would only make sense if they chopped another forest. Barracks = 60 hammers. They had 50 hammers in it last turn and were making 5 hpt. 50 + 5 + 20 = 75/60 = 15 overflow. Or something like that. They would have had to have had a forest pre-chopped, I think. Anyway, hopefully shouldn't be a big deal, but they are no doubt preparing for conflict. 3 turns until I get Copper online. Still no metal in sight for Korea. I hope that it stays that way.

[Whosit]

Ho ho, a triple post in my own thread. But I suppose I have some more to say.

Picture from before:


First, did some more simming. I think that I am on track for IW on T62. I'll have to build up 2 turns of cash soon, but that should be enough to see me through. I'll probably do one more 0% dive to get through Pottery, but after that, it looks like a steady diet of 60% teching. I plan to hit Masonry after Pottery, then Writing. Though I am not the first to Writing, as you shall soon see, and so I expect to be beaten to Literature, but who knows. Masonry makes sense, anyway, since I need to to get the Marble. It also allows for walls, which I may want to consider building if things go badly. I hope Korea skips Masonry for awhile . . . . And no one had better suggest it to them! Heh.

I made up a best-case scenario with Iron near the original start point, in the 1st ring. I need to work on my finesse, but I expect it will take until T60 to get 6 Praetorians, my minimum for an offense (plus other troops for escort). Things may not be so rosey, so we shall see. Plako and Broker will have plenty of time to build up a military, but if they lack metal, the advantage should still be with me.

Sulla and Speaker placed a new city. 2nd or 3rd? I wasn't keeping close enough track earlier.

Got a quick reply from Athlete. I might have to sleep on this one, though.

Aah a swift reply!

It is not surprising that you have had difficulty scouting considering the volume of ferocious lions, bears and wolves we've seen. Fortune has favoured us it would seem and deemed fit to guide Ellorrs so far. We would love to meet the Korean's and would very much appreciate any assistance you might provide in arranging such meeting. Perhaps you could see fit to allow safe passage through your lands? We've recently discovered the tools of writing and would be happy to draw up a proposal for you that would suit your terms. We'd be happy to follow your directions through your land in an attempt to meet Korea as swiftly as possible and would agree to not mention any information gained of your civ to them if so desired. If at all possible this would very much be preferred to travelling over the open ground just north of here. This could be mutually beneficial in building trust now and for down the road.

On that note to the north does lie a sea, though it's full shape I have yet to determine. Unfortuneately I can not provide much information in that regard. The Incan do indeed lie to the North East and you can find us and the Byzantine's further north still. Happy scouting and let us know if there's anything else you might wish to know.

Sincerely,

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

I think I'll go ahead and mention that Korean Warrior, since I doubt I can hide it. Not sure whether to say he came out of the fog (though Athlete will surely notice the Warriors facing) or just say that I didn't notice it due to my surprise to see him. I'll go with the latter, a thin excuse, but it beats trying to continue bluffing.

The Right of Passage makes me nervous, mainly because he will get a clear benefit, and I will not. It may create good will, but I'm not certain that good will goes far enough. On the other hand, I should probably try to NOT alienate every other player!

. . .

OK, I guess I'm writing a reply now. Eagerness overwhelms me.

Dear Athlete and Kalin,

You must speak the truth. My own Rumia and Thannos have more than once been nearly done in by terrible beasts which slowed their pace considerably. Ellorrs is indeed blessed.

Now, regarding the Koreans, I am a bit embarrassed. There is actually a Korean Warrior just south of Ellorrs. It did not occur to me at first that you two could not see each other due to the terrain (as I could see both units) and thought that you desired directions to their homeland. Send Ellorrs South or Southeast and you should be able to make contact.

That you have knowledge of this "Writing" is of interest to us. A shame that you cannot teach it to us. In any case, the Imperium is not opposed to working out an agreement with the Ottomans, although I must admit that it does not appear that we would have anything to gain from such an agreement at this time, yet we potentially have much to lose. We would consider signing Open Borders just long enough for Ellorrs to travel directly west through our territory, though we wonder if you have anything to offer. Obviously, things would be different if one of our scouts had reached your borders as well, so I hope that you understand. One cannot be too cautious.

And, of course, if you pass through our lands, we expect you not to share any of that information with any other civilization. However, I would like to point out that you should still be able to expect safe passage by taking a detour north and west. You will still come into contact with Korea territory by heading in that direction. I noticed that Ellorrs is slightly wounded, so he could spend a moment healing near the safety of our borders.

On a final note, I was wondering what your impression of these other civilizations you mentioned are, especially the Inca. I am actually the second leader of the Interim people (formerly the Romans under the previous leader), but I understand that my predecessor had brief contact with the Zulu and had a favorable impression of them before they were destroyed. I can only imagine that these Inca are bloodthirsty terrorists. Should I expect my scouts to come under attack if I approach them?

Best regards,

Whosit, Ruler of the Interim Imperium

There, I think that should cover my rear well enough. I also think that I laid out my position clearly regarding the Open Borders suggestion. I'd really like to keep them closed for now, but I don't want close the possibility to any deal.

Getting quite a bit more interesting.

[Whosit]

Latest communication from the Ottomans:

Greetings Mighty Rome,

Thank you for the directions to the Korean Sentry. We would like to proceed as you have directed but doing so would put us further away from that North and West passage around your borders. If we could secure safe passage through your land we would love to greet the Koreans this turn. You are correct we really have nothing to offer at this point in time except information and our word. Given that you mentioned you will meet the Inca's shortly, if you continue to head N you will in all likelihood need safe passage through our borders to continue. We would be happy to return the favour to you that you might provide us now. Under all the same stipulations as one might expect .

Also we have little to nothing to gain from taking undue advantage of such an agreement and to make an enemy of Rome would be fool-hardy at any stage. As for the Inca's we have found them mildly co-operative though their nature is yet hard to discern. Having heard of their conquests we had been prepared from the start for any outrageous actions yet they seem to only want peace. I think it was perhaps fear of the future power of Zulu that drove them to behave so aggressively towards Zulu which can only make you wonder...

Given the now open distance between you two I would encourage you to fill it as fast as you can. There may come a time where we share an intent to expand into the same civ .

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

They certainly know how to butter someone up, eh?

Hmm . . . . It may not be the best choice (if there is such a thing), but I suppose I'll let them pass through. I'm going by the old rule of thumb: "Make friends with those further away from you." Even if they break their word and report to the Koreans, they shouldn't see anything the Koreans haven't.

Speaking of, can't remember if I mentioned it, but I think Korea's most recent tech was the Wheel, based on the jump in power. I'm not 100% sure if they have Animal Husbandry, too.

Anyway, I'm going to work on a response now. I'll let them through, ask them not to dawdle too long. I'll also ask them what strategic resources they can see. They haven't gotten far into my territory, but if they know anything about Iron deposits, it would be very valuable to me. I'll also ask if they have coastal cities. Hmm, wait, even if one of us has Sailing, we can't trade through neutral territory, can we? Well, I might as well ask. Couldn't hurt to discuss possible resource trades.

They are right that settling into the empty space would be a good thing, though it still needs more scouting out. But first thing's first. And I doubt I could expand that far pre-currency/code of laws, anyway.

Anyway, probably won't get my next turn until tonight at the rate things are going. I'll play in my sandbox a bit more to smooth out the Iron Working time. And I'll post my reply letter soon.

[Whosit]

And here it is:

Dear Athlete and Kalin of the Ottomans,

Very well, I shall allow your Warrior passage through Interim lands. If Ellorrs moves south, he can use that road to make it through to the other side of our territory. Please stay on the road heading due west. Once you reach our western border, you should immediately seen Korean territory. If they allow you through their land, you will find more wilderness. If not, you will have to detour north. There you will find . . . more wilderness.

I do have more questions of you, seeing as how you are more advanced in some areas than we are. How advanced is your metallurgy? We have learned how to shape some of the more malleable metals that can be found, but are wondering if any stronger substances are nearby. Have you seen any such deposits in your travels? On another note, I do not know if your people have learned to domesticate wild beasts, but if not, I imagine that you will find swift, four-legged animals near your capital city.

Additionally, do you have any cities lying on the coast? We plan to study the art of Sailing at some future point, and wonder if the trading of resources would be possible. I do not know if the intervening territory of the Inca will prohibit such trade, but I figured that I might as well broach the topic.

We thank you for sharing your opinion of the Inca. Hopefully the distance between us and them will be enough to prevent a needless confrontation. I wish you luck in your travels.

Best regards,

Whosit, Ruler of the Interim Imperium

I feel like I'm artificially raising my post count, though in my defense, I need to post for like three people. It seems like larger teams might have more posts because their members may "discuss" things in their thread. Dunno. I really need to stop worrying about that, though.

Anyway, hopefully my reply is self explanatory. I wonder if Athlete has AH or Pottery . . . or both. He must have one of them for Writing's Pre-req, because I don't think he took the Meditation > Priesthood route.

[BobRoberts]

Nice summary of the communications there! Clear and concise - did enjoy that. Thanks.

I noticed that you said 6 Praets by Turn 60 a little way upthread - I also got the impression that you were going to discover IW on turn 60-62 - that would seem a fast or even time travelling praet production speed - was it correct?

Really interested to see how things pan out in your game! Love to comment more, but I hate the thought of giving accidental spoiler info...