EitB 0010 Wishlist/Progress

[Sareln]

what do others think about the "lose peace with barbs" mechanic of the BAR trait?

I've always hated it with a passion, it leads to all kinds of gamey behaviour to keep score artificially low when you're playing as intended.

I'd just remove that alright, but just making it require 2x instead of 1.5x could be enough... or maybe link it to culture or alignment instead

also, could Moroi and soldiers of Kilmorph be neverobsolete since their unique abilities are always useful?

btw, should the Nox Noctis effect affect the whole team?

I'd also recommend a nerf to gambling houses, like 1 happy per 20% gold, and one for public baths, like 2 happy 2 unhealthy. they're both very good compared to others.

• BAR - If you've the BAR trait and can't lose it except by choice, why would do anything other than Armageddon bomb every single game?
  
• Moroii - We broke their upgrade chain to Vampires earlier iirc, so they should already be permanent fixtures.
  
• Soldier of Kilmorph - They upgrade to Paramanders, but I seem to recall being able to build them anyways. Is that just a mis-remembering on my part?
  
• Nox - That's already a very strong effect. I think I'm more comfortable keeping it at the player level right now.
  
• Gambling Houses - They're good, yes. I'm not convinced that they're too good.
  

[HidingKneel]

Veil of Night is useless in MP and Svart are considered worse than Ljos so a slight buff would be nice. what if it also gave +25% city attack to offset recon's penalty?

Svartalfar are maybe weaker than Ljosalfar in base FFH, but I'd argue that's primarily because Faeryl has mediocre traits.
Under Volanna they are fantastic (perhaps too much so). I don't think their worldspell needs a boost: it's intentionally much weaker than the Ljosalfar worldspell (balanced against the fact that Sinister is an awesome civ trait and Dextrous is mediocre).

[Thoth]

On the general subject, I think Os Gabella needs a boost. Summoner does nothing for her. Does Ind speed up the building of planar gates? If so, I kind of like the idea of Spi/Ind for her (Sheaim need a leader that can build those gates!), though that might be overpowered (and Thessalonica already has those traits).

Wait, what?

Nothing wrong with Spi/Summoner Sheam.

Ain't broke. Don't need to be fixed.

[Thoth]

planar gates really need a price cut to be worth building

The Sheam are all about PZs and Death 1 Adepts in MP.

Planar Gates as SP buildery shineys are just fine as is.

what do others think about the "lose peace with barbs" mechanic of the BAR trait?

Works fine as is. Peace with barbs is a huge early boost, and if you want war with the barbs to pop lairs it's easy to get (even easier in EitB)

also, could Moroi and soldiers of Kilmorph be neverobsolete since their unique abilities are always useful?

Paramaders require both Copper and a Temple of Kill'em'orph. SoKs require only that RoK is present in the city.

If you really want to keep pumping SoKs post Arete, you can do it.

btw, should the Nox Noctis effect affect the whole team?

No.

I'd also recommend a nerf to gambling houses, like 1 happy per 20% gold, and one for public baths, like 2 hapy 2 unhealthy. they're both very good compared to others.

No. Just no.

Gambling Houses are just fine as they are: Expensive and only worthwhile if you aren't running Binary Research (which most players do).

[Sareln]

What would happen if Planar Gates were Obsidian Gate replacements?

[Qgqqqqq]

The nexus would be a really cool build

I don't see any balance problems though.

[gekko64]

[*] BAR - If you've the BAR trait and can't lose it except by choice, why would do anything other than Armageddon bomb every single game?
[*] Moroii - We broke their upgrade chain to Vampires earlier iirc, so they should already be permanent fixtures.
[*] Soldier of Kilmorph - They upgrade to Paramanders, but I seem to recall being able to build them anyways. Is that just a mis-remembering on my part?
[/LIST]

BAR: well, I don' think rushing armageddon is a particularly great strategy anyway. fun and flavourful, but not very effective unless you're also rigging the game in your favour with last days. I read the PBEM where Charadon managed to win and in the end both him and the Ljos were artificially keeping their score low ( lame ) , which didn't even matter that much in the end since as the Charadon player rightfully pointed out he could get 1.5 points for every Ljos' 1.

if AC rush is considered too good with unbreakable barb peace, the peacebreak could be linked to an AC stage instead. like 90 when the avatar of wrath comes seems reasonable: the horsemen are not as scary as they look, but 90 AC means barbs everywhere so barb peace is crazy good then :D or 80 since hellfires don't seem to make a big difference anyway..

Moroii: you mean how you can build a training yard but avoid a governor manor? I don't know about that, the manors are too good to avoid imo :D

SoKs: it'd need to be tested ingame I guess..

Svartalfar are maybe weaker than Ljosalfar in base FFH, but I'd argue that's primarily because Faeryl has mediocre traits.
Under Volanna they are fantastic (perhaps too much so). I don't think their worldspell needs a boost: it's intentionally much weaker than the Ljosalfar worldspell (balanced against the fact that Sinister is an awesome civ trait and Dextrous is mediocre).

yeah, I like Svarts more than Ljos exactly because of Sinister. it's not really that they need a boost per se, it's just that having the worldspell be 99% useless in MP is lame.

The Sheam are all about PZs and Death 1 Adepts in MP.

Planar Gates as SP buildery shineys are just fine as is.

No. Just No. :P

I'm pretty sure having civ-specific mechanics that are useless in MP is what Eitb aims to fix in the first place. it's very simple really: if a building is not worth its price in hammers, it should get a price cut to make it viable otherwise it can just get axed outright. which is what Eitbs rightfully did to many overpriced buildings, and the gameplay is much improved because of it.

What would happen if Planar Gates were Obsidian Gate replacements?

way too late to impact the game in a meaningful way imo. you could make them replace a cheaper building instead, like mage guilds maybe? that would make an AGG/BAR/IND Averax a nice leader due to Catacomb Libralus ( AGG/IND is unused atm )

btw, I just realized my previous suggeston for Ethne ( SPI/CRE ) is overused ( Arende + Varn ) , but SPI/ORG is unused and would fit her well.

[gekko64]

re: Doviello Battlemasters, what about same str and price as champions, with +25% vs melee and +25% in tundra? would keep the flavourful bonus while bringing Doviello at least on the same levels as others in the area they're supposed to shine in

if one wanted to buff them even more to bring em up to par with the Clan, the upgrade outside borders mechanic could be expanded to other unit lines. not sure if it's ultimately needed, but definitely worth considering.

[flugauto]

Make Planar Gates build +100% faster for Aggressive leaders. Make AC go up when a Planar Gate is built.

[Tasunke]

for the sake of Mahala's lore, could at least expand that to the Recon line :P