TOS is the only city on the mainland that can do something, and it won't change for the next 10t even though the new city will start being useful too. So I want it to have enough production at all times.
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[Spoilers] Ceterum Peter censet Carthaginem fore triumphatrix - Adrien + Miguelito
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February 25th, 2015, 08:36
(This post was last modified: February 25th, 2015, 08:36 by Miguelito.)
Hm, but with gems getting online growing fast to size 5 with corn + crab + FPs sounds also good. Defense wise we're ok on the mainland I think with axe + spear at stones. Actually , what do we want to build next in TOS? Options I see are library, barracks, lighthouse (not really) or another unit. I feel like rax or axe.
Btw great wall at stone city after granary is a real option: cheaper than library (city has little commerce anyways), we need good culture to counter Thh, GE points are good (it gives that, or not?), and we could relax a little wrt our E/W defenses
Ok, so we won't see the afternoon turn before midnight. I'll just report the upcoming turn instead of a played one
 (February 25th, 2015, 09:32)AdrienIer Wrote: It's worth a simDon't know if we want to call it a sim, but I ran a bit of numbers: For granary + GW, we need 20+50 = 70 raw hammers. I'm going to chop-mine the forested PH 1N of the city after improving the stone, so we get 20 raw hammers that way and need 50 from the city's production The city starts working the corn tile (5f), then the stone (1f4h), then the PH mine (4h), then... dunno, we can cottage the grass tile 1SW of TOS and work that, or just move a forested grass hill (1f2h) till borders pop for more mines (we want to conserve the forest for a possible wonder rush 1N of the silks) So the city grows after 3,7,and 12 turns of its existence (assuming we get the granary before size three) So after turn 7 we've got 23h in, and 50h completed after 10t. The other option would be to build a monument, which is weak against Cre culture. I think it's worth it. I'd like to explain my plans for GD for the upcoming turns: Having finished the settler, it now needs 1 turn for the granary, the turn after we grow to size 4 working on a lighthouse, and I believe also to size 5. By then I imagine we need a new worker to help with the mids chops. Might be whipped. Afterwards, the stone should be online and it's Moai time  ! Seriously, I don't see a better spot where we could get it within the next 50 turns Pfeffi can start putting (very lttle, cause still scientists) bonus-free hammers into the mids, or do you think we've got something better to do with the city right now? I'll let it work the two food resources. TOS starts another axe, alright... but we don't really need it fast, so I'll prioritise growth/cottages over hammers. IIRC the barb warrior at TOS moved onto the forest. I'll move our axe onto the FP cottage and hope he attacks us, alright? This is the fastest way to get the axe to stone city afterwards. The monument at Peas is going to be chopped this turn. The next project is either a galley, or a unit. The galley makes sense if we want to settle the marble iceball soonish, or scout towards the NE. ... which gets me to the point I'd like to discuss the most - our MoM plan. Here's some pros and cons from my perspective Pros - awesome wonder, synergistic with PHI's lots of great people and a possible fast Taj powered by a philo bulb. - we've got some calendar resources already (banana, dyes, silk - which however needs gems city to pop borders or the MoM filler city to be built), and have reasonable expectations to also get at least incense, spices, and another banana - we may want the marble plant soonish anyways for TGL, the epics, maybe later also more excentric wonders like TOA (I think it could be quite worth it in a Cothon + Academy Pfeffi, particularly if we get Hindu and want a shrine), Parthenon (?) Cons - everyone wants it. If next turn we see THH has marble then I'm sure he'll get it. Alhazard is also a possible contender, we know nothing about him. Our only (tiny) chance is that both of them are ORG, so they have a reason to go for CoL as well. I don't expect Mardoc to go for it as he has built two wonders already and is most probably working on the Colossus right now, so he should be focusing to catch up in terms of growth right now. - we would have to settle at least one city we do not really want, well I think two. This means delaying good spots like the wheat/rice/sheep and our island's copper city, and also land claims against our opponents. Basically, we set the snowball on halt for whatever two settling parties take us, for an unsure benefit which, if we nail it, may not be immediately (though yes, a GA after MoM to switch into OR, Religion and some turns of caste, why not) - do we think we can compete if we go currency (also, probably Poly) first? I think we absolutely want to, because the (IC, foreign) TRs are a huge and guaranteed benefit. - the calendar resources, as well as the iceball's fur, will hopefully not be needed that desperately, as we wish to be in Rep by the time it matters. If we are not, it means we lost the mids and our game is ruined, so we can invade THH with Numids  My conclusion: we'll go currency no matter what (that was also Adrien's plan, but I was doubting), and observe how THH's resources behave. If he has calendar resources or marble by the time we finish currency, no way we get the wonder. Otherwise, we rethink it  Another wonder question: If (when!) we get the mids, we eat the anarchy turn to switch into Rep, not going to wait for a GA, right? I think it would be difficult to have a GP ready to launch a GA (and it wouldn't really be the time to do so), unless we forget about the Academy and save the GS (don't want to) Assuming we don't go for MoM, what are our tech goals? We can research - Calendar for the resources. Doesn't really seem a priority to me. - Compass. Very strong, but expensive. Jungle cutting isn't needed to much, at least without calendar  - CoL. Courthouses will be necessary at some point, but are quite expensive. More importantly, we need Caste, at least for a GA. Also, Bureacracy for our Academy capital! - Metal Casting. Forges shouldn't be delayed, and by no means do we want to face triremes with galleys. The map layout means everybody is quite boatable - HBR. If we go for the Numids fast, the effect on THH could be devastating (till he gets his own horses). However, do we want to fight a war? Not really. I see it more as a sidekick tech when we start worrying for our safety. Must not forget that Numids also need archery... - Aesthetics route for TGL, epics, maybe another wonder (there's no ivory on the map, but anyways, SoZ is just 200h...). If we go that way we also want the Music artist. - Monotheism for OR (not without a GA I think) So there's one important single tech (MC, 415b), one optional military route (HBR+Archery, 284b), situational Monotheism (110b), and three(!) strong beelines (IW+Compass, 553b; CoL, 322b, + CS, 739b, total 1061b; Aesthetics + Literature, 461b, + Music, 554b). I seriously have no idea what to pick of the 4 main options. I suspect Literature beeline shouldn't be the first to execute, as right now we want to focus on expansion, not so much wonders. If we don't build MoM, we don't need marble before these techs. The choice between Compass and MC can be seen a bit as commerce vs production, so do we fear more to be outproduced or outteched? I suspect rather the second, as I don't think THH is really agressive, but we shouldn't be vulnerable... CoL is mandatory imo for the GA (Mono as well, but it should be a really fast thing) A question that's coming up: do we want to spend 54b on Priesthood to get the extra 20% on CoL? 20% is 64 beakers, so it seems to make sense. Wrote a lot, hope it wasn't too tedious, at least it helped to make up my mind
February 25th, 2015, 18:55
(This post was last modified: February 25th, 2015, 18:57 by Miguelito.)
quick report:
we met Alhazard. He is to our E/W and has 6 cities (we will next turn), and as it seems quite a similar mainland situation (though no total mirror). That could actually mean that we're competing for Pyramids. I offered OB to give him an incentive not to kill our scout / as a sign of good will. Maybe a spear towards the west soonish could be a good idea.  We founded Emerald by the gems and got TRs with THH in 4/5 cities. Hopefully this is enough for him not to want to attack one of our two injured warriors on the jungle with his healthy one. Also he has clams instead of crabs, 2 fishes (Cre shining) and no copper, just horses. Good, so the spear incoming with the settler should suffice for a while. If everything goes well, stone city is founded next turn. Barbs continue to annoy:  The unhappiness came up eot with growth. If we just retreat to the city, there is a slight chance that one barb goes onto the cottage, the other on the copper, and we would lose our metal, which would be catastrophic. Solution: Axe kills the first barb, and spear on the galley stays on it for MP (do loaded units count as MP?), while the settler goes founding. The turn after, an injured warrior arrives from the jungle, so the spear can go to stone city on the galley and the axe kills the other barb warrior. We can count on the axe being able to kill two warriors in a row, right? Demos not making me happy. My hope is two new cities and gems coming online.  At least we would win any war right now, if we could manage to bring the units in
February 26th, 2015, 04:04
(This post was last modified: February 26th, 2015, 04:05 by Miguelito.)
Eventful turn! I'll try to keep the report as short/image-loaded as possible, as I've been spamming quite a lot...
 Alhazard took OB. Good news: I can't tell for sure, but if they have stone in the same location as we do it doesn't seem it's settled, at least not from Al's side. To be scouted. Maybe we can expect his war chariot in Emerald soon. Maybe we should keep a spear in range (we could do the zone defense thing with the spear that was intended for stone city, though we need four more turns to get the road done).Our two new cities:  Hulk is a 100% production city. I actually hope that we get even stronger hammer sites in the future, but I liked the name too much to delay it. In the end, the city is going to build half the Pyramids by its sheer existence I'm wondering what to do with emerald after the granary. At least one spear turn, to have it whippable, is a clear thing; also, the grass hill SW is going to be mined and worked. Maybe a lighthouse would be good, to allow to grow on coast and work mines when maxed out. The city has food problems, can't deny it. still, barbs...  It's an outright invasion! What can we do? There's the option to place the spear together with the axe on the copper tile next turn, which should be enough to kill'em all defending, however, I don't like to get the spear so far away from our chariot loving neighbours. Or we move the axe onto the cottage tile and hope one barb attacks. But we can also end up with 3 barbs on our copper and would not have enough units to kill them. Got another idea? The two warriors that were guarding the Hulk settling site are moving to TOS and can help as MP there. One will be moved to the mainland eventually to become MP in Peas. Unhappiness at TOS will be compensated when the gems mine finishes next turn. Demos are a bit better now.  Note we are not researching at 100%. Instead, to be prepared for the off-chance of someone getting Hinduism just this turn, I set research to 30%, which is enough to finish the tech at 100% next turn (also, we take full advantage of the Academy FWIW; 20% would've been enough but I didn't want to risk anything). Land and pop look good, CY and MFG not so. Somehow other players use their land more efficiently.  ...finally, In the year 840 BC an erudite from the bibliotheque of Pfeffi came up telling the people that nothing was certain, not the place they were in nor where they were heading to. The citizens took him for crazy, and didn't pay attention to him. But when he started telling them of "atoms" everybody and everything was supposedly made of, and that those atoms themselves were made of even smaller things that were like the waves on the ocean, and at the same tile like grains of sand on the beach, the Carthaginians decided it was against the gods which they were discovering just at the same time. They jailed him in the newly erected madhouse, which soon after would become famous in the empire, and even to remote peoples as the Chinese and the Egyptians, unter the name of the Grand Academy of the Savants of Pfeffi.
Commenting on the messages one by one (even though the first one is outdated) :
First let's remember that at any point we can decide to use scientists in Pfeffi for 11 turns and get ourselves another GS for a GA. I still like Calendar as next tech after currency, I doubt we'll be seeing marble soon because TGL is not as tempting when you're not phi. Marble city gets us another happy, but of course in Rep that's pretty much irrelevant. My proposal is that we build a settler on the island around the time we start teching calendar (that is, if we don't see any sign of another civ going for it too), we found the marble city on the turn we get calendar because it's pretty useless otherwise, and the silk city also on the same turn (same here, it's useless except for forests). Of course forests will have to be prechopped but that's alright. If we plan it right we can have MoM done in no time. Then there are many tempting routes, to music CS or compass. I disagree about sea attacks being important for now, the lay of the land is favorable to galleon attacks, not galley attacks. Alhazard isn't going to randomly send a galley around the northern peninsula to randomly attack us from the north... And THH will have to go through the straits and take one of our border cities, which are well defended. Now the problem of the barbs : I see several options, but we'll have to get the spear there too, no way out of that. Two possibilities, either put it with the axe on the copper or attack the forest warrior with the axe (95% chances) then reinforce with the spear, the axe gets a promo to heal on the turn after that so no more barb problems. Second option is riskier but gets us more xp for the axe, on our way to the HE. If I forgot to mention anything just ask me. Also we're planning to chop the hill N of Hulk right ? |