Suboptimal IV: Indonesian Insanity

[suboptimal]

If you lose suzerainty at any point the levy ends immediately. You can even get up to 4 Era Points for placing envoys to end someone else's levy (2 for getting the levied units to stand down and two more if you were at war with the city-state).

[shallow_thought]

Let us be teammates
We’ll play out our fortunes together
I’ve got some empty space
Here in my thread

I'm loving your theme, and the way you're expressing it.

The game is pretty good reading too .

[suboptimal]

Let us be teammates
We’ll play out our fortunes together
I’ve got some empty space
Here in my thread

I'm loving your theme, and the way you're expressing it.

The game is pretty good reading too .

Thanks!  Fortunately I'm not repeating my empire sprawl of PBEM 10 -- a lot of their song titles are....making up for the songwriter's height, shall we say () and not really usable city names.

[suboptimal]

Turn 73

Take a look around, don’t see anything too alarming. Woden has fortified his hypaspists at Nan Madol, the eastern one has two units in support, the western one just one, probably all are archers. Carthage continues to heal, I wouldn’t mind seeing it start walls. I might be able to regain suzerainty with Amani as well, if only to see what Woden is up to. If he’s coming west from Carthage I won’t know it until he’s on top of me. I’d really like to know if he’s consolidating at Nan Madol or not. I’ll have to keep an eye on the support bonus of the western hypaspist as that will be my first indication of trouble.

Speaking of coming from Carthage I continue moving chariots up to Boxer. Force composition up there after the move:




Up north the galley continues moving around Granada’s island. In the mid-latitudes Archduke’s galley is following me:




I find this behavior...suspicious. Why? Two things. First, his northern galley is overdue in reaching Boxer. That tells me that he may have found a coastal channel west of Hattusa (the crabs in the upper right corner of the image) and may be somewhere in the fog to the north. Second, his visible galley stopped moving towards Lisbon and is backtracking into territory that he knows (and that he knows that I know that he knows ). Three more turns of movement west and he would have had the first circiumnavigation era points if he didn’t have it already. My initial, paranoid conclusion is that he’s setting up an ambush. Two galleys vs. a quadrireme would result in my losing the quad. Archduke knows that my quad is just waiting for my obscene culture rate to get me to Mercenaries and killing this off now is one less Jong later. I bring the quad south, back towards America, and will loiter in territorial waters or the city proper until I see one or both galleys go by. The northern galley will need to seek out that route once its complete with its exploration.

Last turn I’d said I’d mine the iron. However, I checked my notes and I need to farm the rice so that I have 5 farms before I buy the next builder. I do that instead of the iron mine and pick up the eureka for Irrigation while I’m at it. I move the warrior out into the desert to see what’s where and find the archer in the forest SE of the iron. I’ll move to open ground next to the iron and take the tortoise promotion next turn, then move onto the iron the turn after.

With Nan Madol converted I bring the missionary back towards Old Friends. With the gains in population at Old Friends and Boxer they are now up to 15 and 18 turns to convert. I’ll spend a charge at Boxer to speed that process and then head for America to convert part of the population there. That city is actually getting enough pressure to convert in 25 turns...if it stays at 1 population. However, that’s going to be changing in a few turns. Out by Australian waters my galley turns the corner and heads east along the southern coast. I’ve probably got 8 turns of movement or so to circumnavigate.

Internationally, Woden has fallen into last place in both and yields. I’m presently highest in , and yields as well as milpower (270 vs. 227 for Archduke and 225 for Woden). Woden will also have Boudica in 12 turns. Fortunately Great Poeple don’t stack.

Cornflakes, if my counting is correct Stirrups will be at it’s T-1 point in four more turns (266.8 as of EoT77). Defensive Tactics will complete after next turn. Feudalism will be completed EoT82 with the placement of one more farm. Do you think it might be worth moving Amani back to Carthage to activate around Turn 83? That would give me visibility and let me know if Woden’s troops are still around if he doesn’t redeclare war on Turn 81. It’d also be a forward upgrade spot that I could move to while getting Mercenaries completed.

With Liang coming with the completion of Defensive Tactics I also don’t need that forest chop for the Government Plaza unless we want to pick up another governor (Pingala? Victor?) or promote one of the ones we have. Liang will be recruited on T75, active in Sound on Turn 80. I’ll buy the builder there when she goes active and then go farm → cow harvest → and then up the coast to harvest Boxer’s crabs, keeping a charge in reserve.

[Cornflakes]

Defensive Tactics will finish in three turns and while I’d like to slot Maritime Industries I don’t have space for it – Raid, Professional Army and Maneuver are the needed ones

Professional Army is not yet unlocked

Cornflakes, if my counting is correct Stirrups will be at it’s T-1 point in four more turns (266.8Icon_Science as of EoT77). Defensive Tactics will complete after next turn. Feudalism will be completed EoT82 with the placement of one more farm. Do you think it might be worth moving Amani back to Carthage to activate around Turn 83? That would give me visibility and let me know if Woden’s troops are still around if he doesn’t redeclare war on Turn 81. It’d also be a forward upgrade spot that I could move to while getting Mercenaries completed.

Not bad on my initial T81 Estimate for Feudalism, off by one 1 turn over a 30 turn projection . Yes, I do think it would be worth moving Amani back. You could upgrade 1 knight at full cost in your territory, and then push forward with the remaining chariots un-upgraded and then upgrade them in Carthage territory. Will Amani have enough time to get established in Hattusa before moving back to Carthage? That would give you the 2 era points and a brief glimpse of vision from Hattussa before moving Amani back.

With Liang coming with the completion of Defensive Tactics I also don’t need that forest chop for the Government Plaza unless we want to pick up another governor (Pingala? Victor?) or promote one of the ones we have. Liang will be recruited on T75, active in Sound on Turn 80.

I briefly browsed the governors and titles available. Victor we hope never to need. Do you have a high-yield city where Pingla will make a noticeable impact on your overall research rates? Liang's Infrastructure promoting might be something to consider for city center and government plaza buildings. Warlord's Throne sounds intriguing for the tier-1 plaza building. Grand Master's Chapel granting bonus faith to pillaging sounds incredible if the bonus faith is scaled same as the base pillage yield (raiding to pillage improvements could give you enough faith to purchase an army to capture the cities).

[suboptimal]

Defensive Tactics will finish in three turns and while I’d like to slot Maritime Industries I don’t have space for it – Raid, Professional Army and Maneuver are the needed ones

Professional Army is not yet unlocked

For some reason I have a mental block and "internally" confuse "Conscription" with "Professional Army"

Cornflakes, if my counting is correct Stirrups will be at it’s T-1 point in four more turns (266.8Icon_Science as of EoT77). Defensive Tactics will complete after next turn. Feudalism will be completed EoT82 with the placement of one more farm. Do you think it might be worth moving Amani back to Carthage to activate around Turn 83? That would give me visibility and let me know if Woden’s troops are still around if he doesn’t redeclare war on Turn 81. It’d also be a forward upgrade spot that I could move to while getting Mercenaries completed.

Not bad on my initial T81 Estimate for Feudalism, off by one 1 turn over a 30 turn projection . Yes, I do think it would be worth moving Amani back. You could upgrade 1 knight at full cost in your territory, and then push forward with the remaining chariots un-upgraded and then upgrade them in Carthage territory. Will Amani have enough time to get established in Hattusa before moving back to Carthage? That would give you the 2 era points and a brief glimpse of vision from Hattussa before moving Amani back.

Amani will establish EoT76 and could immediately move back to Carthage to establish as of EoT82. The builder for the crabs harvest (and Magnus) wouldn't be ready at Boxer until Turn 86 or 87; faster if the builder's increased movement from Monumentality applies when embarked.

With Liang coming with the completion of Defensive Tactics I also don’t need that forest chop for the Government Plaza unless we want to pick up another governor (Pingala? Victor?) or promote one of the ones we have. Liang will be recruited on T75, active in Sound on Turn 80.

I briefly browsed the governors and titles available. Victor we hope never to need. Do you have a high-yield city where Pingla will make a noticeable impact on your overall research rates? Liang's Infrastructure promoting might be something to consider for city center and government plaza buildings. Warlord's Throne sounds intriguing for the tier-1 plaza building. Grand Master's Chapel granting bonus faith to pillaging sounds incredible if the bonus faith is scaled same as the base pillage yield (raiding to pillage improvements could give you enough faith to purchase an army to capture the cities).

Sound is the current high yield city, generating 18.9 and 12.4 per turn. Pingala would work there. Giving LIang two promotions (Govt Plaza + Tier 1 or Recorded History) to get the Infrastructure (+30% to city center and govt plaza buildings) and Zoning Commissioner (+20% production to districts). We might also consider getting Magnus two promotions to produce units without Strategic Resources.

I think for the tier 1 building the Audience Chamber would be the most useful (+1 amenity, +3 housing in cities with a governor). I don't know that we'd be conquering much by the time the Warlord's Throne is built (we'll either be stalemated or have run over Macedonia with knights by then) and the Ancestral Hall would only be useful if we were doing a large settler push instead of just 2-3 of them. As far as the Tier 2 building goes, yeah, Grand Master's Chapel probably does scale with the pillaging and even if it didn't the faith purchasing ability synergizes nicely.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I just finished a SP game testing out pillaging yields in the Atomic Era and beyond, and sadly, no, GMC faith was a flat 30 per pillage for me.

That said, by late game you routinely can get hundreds of science from easily pillagable mines and universities, and if you manage to pillage a harbor or commercial hub? Woof. It can fund an entire army upgrade just by itself. I had a horde of helicopters just swooping across AI empires like modern day Mongol hordes. You can get everything you need except production from pillaging alone.

[suboptimal]

Thanks for that clarification. That means the answer is to pillage plantations for faith, though GMC might still be useful for land unit purchasing in a crunch.

Hopefully in a few turns I'll see if I can get the science engine going at Stockholm, though it'd be nice if they'd hurry up and finish their library in the next three turns.

[Exrook]

I know they tweaked the governor promotion trees in Gathering Storm - I don't know if they did the same in the base game with the patch. You might want to review them to see if they still fall into your plans the same way.

[suboptimal]

I know they tweaked the governor promotion trees in Gathering Storm - I don't know if they did the same in the base game with the patch.  You might want to review them to see if they still fall into your plans the same way.

Thanks for that comment -- that's probably something I should check in-game, though I think most of the governor changes apply only for the Gathering Storm ruleset.  Time for a pile of screenshots....