[PB61] Map-making thread (No players)

[Charriu]

-What do you think of a coastal path around the world? That would help people like starts C and B make contact with eachother. I know Superdeath was in an unfortunate situation in PB52 similar to start B where Pindicator blocked his only pre-astro trade routes and there was no coast path around the map. I think a coast path is also nice for potential naval shenanigans. A coastal path also enables earlier circumnavigation, I'm not sure what to think about that.

Definitely would take that advise to heart. You can use 1-tile-mountain islands to avoid any settable islands. You don't have to worry about early circumnavigation, because players will still require Optics to get that bonus.

[El Grillo]

It looks like this would be the first map in a while without any islands and no intercontinental routes, so having a global coast would give boats something to do.

[Tarkeel]

First off, the only alteration I'd made to the map at that point, was penciling in the starts. Everything else is random, and I haven't looked that much on the details. I mainly liked the overall shape.

-What do you think of a coastal path around the world? That would help people like starts C and B make contact with eachother. I know Superdeath was in an unfortunate situation in PB52 similar to start B where Pindicator blocked his only pre-astro trade routes and there was no coast path around the map. I think a coast path is also nice for potential naval shenanigans. A coastal path also enables earlier circumnavigation, I'm not sure what to think about that.

It looks like this would be the first map in a while without any islands and no intercontinental routes, so having a global coast would give boats something to do.

I wanted to keep the naval aspect of the map low, but I think this is a good idea. One thing I had actually thought about (but it feels very gimmicky) is to use peaks to create a "barrier reef" around the map. It would be 2 tiles from the mainland, so they can be culture claimed for vision, but the outer coast will not be able to be claimed by culture. I think that could add a very interesting dynamic. There would of course be gaps unevenly spaced, which can then be defended.

-I think start G has the most secure early borders and will be easily able to focus their attention on C, while C has to worry about equal threat from G and E!. Similar for A. Meanwhile, everyone else has two pretty equally accessible neighbors. I think that's sort of unfair. Especially Starts E and F may feel unfairly surrounded. Deepening the bay between E and G will only make that disparity worse. I was actually thinking the opposite, to make the bay less dramatic (maybe all coast tiles also?) and add a corresponding bay along the southern coast, maybe between F and E.

The conflict between C and G is the one I'm most worried about, as they're closest together. Start F is the most central and will most likely need some better land to compensate; maybe a bay and shifting some of E's land over will be a good idea.

Do you want the map to be semi-divided into two groups or not?

Originally I wanted a map where north and south was divided, but with 7 players I think that eastern and western coasts have to connect well too. So it would mainly be a band across the middle.

-I think a gap in the jungle belt along the coast between B and D would help encourage contact between them. We don't want B and A to be all alone in their own duel for the first 100 turns. How much of a border do you want the jungle to be? I think having gaps in the jungle along rivers adds cool flavor and keeps the jungle from feeling too monotonous, but that's just a casual opinion.

Agreed.

-That floodplain between D and F feels like a hotly contested border area. I'm not sure if we want that for a greens game. I can't see resources, but it looks like none of the others have such juicy border areas.

Yep, that will have to be toned down.

-I like the significant chunks of desert and plains.

I plan to keep jungle in the middle, with plains and even tundra/desert areas along the coast.

[Tarkeel]

I've done some more work on the map:



v1: Incorporated starts and players
Start A: Changed the wet rice to a floodplain; moved both deer to outer ring.
Start D: Mirrored
Start F: Moved both deer to outer ring
v2:
Tweaked bay between A and G
Modified bay between E and F
Removed floodplains between D and F
Added traversal peaks

Starts C and D looks like they might need some more "back-line" to expand into.
Resources are not even looked at right now.

[Tarkeel]

I would like to get the starts to the players no later than thursday; I think they are looking pretty decent now.















The screenshots are of the starts incorporated on the map, so the fog is accurate as of V2, but are likely to change in the next balancing pass.

[Thoth]

The Fish/Clam start appears to have a flood plain on the grassland hill 3-6 of the start tile. None of the other starts appear to have this.

Starts 2 and 4 have a Forested deer second ring.

All of the other starts have nothing better than 3 yield starts.

If one start has a 4 yield unimproved tile, all other starts should have equivalent access to a similar strength tile. Otherwise you unbalance the game from turn 0.

[civac2]

Well you get one hammer (3 hammers for CRE) and one turn of working an unimproved tile out of the forested deer tile. It's not that much. The grain starts get some extra commerce. The river wheat should be first ring for both grain starts though.

[Tarkeel]

The Fish/Clam start appears to have a flood plain on the grassland hill 3-6 of the start tile.  None of the other starts appear to have this.

Thanks, fixed this.

Starts 2 and 4 have a Forested deer second ring.

All of the other starts have nothing better than 3 yield starts.

If one start has a 4 yield unimproved tile, all other starts should have equivalent access to a similar strength tile.  Otherwise you unbalance the game from turn 0.

I think you mean A and F? These two starts are the hardest to balance, for that exact reason. Civac found that their worker will come two turns earlier, which is why the forested deer will take two turns for the worker to arrive, while similar wheat/corn can be improved the same turn. They might even lose out on a turn now that you have to wait for border to expand before working them. I also slightly toned them down, in that F has a seafood resource and A lost it's rice to a floodplain. I think that they end up being fair.

(Thanks for the feedback BTW)

Well you get one hammer (3 hammers for CRE) and one turn of working an unimproved tile out of the forested deer tile. It's not that much. The grain starts get some extra commerce. The river wheat should be first ring for both grain starts though.

Agreed, moved it around some so that the wheat is wet and first ring, and corn is dry second ring.

[civac2]

You only gain one turn on the worker from the forested deer (since it's second ring). Then you need two turns to reach the deer and gain one back because deer improves faster. In total wheat farm and deer camp finish on the same turn. The deer start is by that point 3 food and 8 hammers up. Hm, that's actually a lot.

[El Grillo]

Would any of the coastal starts have a dangerously strong capital if they moved inland on T0? Looking at start C in particular, they could opt to forego the plains hill, keep all three land food resources and the river, and have more BFC land tiles and possibility of BFC strategic resources.