[PB66 Spoilers] Miguelito and Ginger split the bill

[Ginger()]

You know if you’re struggling to chose between SPI and PHI there is one leader...

Let’s stick with ORG. You’re right about lush maps and Caste, but I can’t shake the feeling that If Asoka, Then HRE. His dedicated Oracle/CoL beeline on that combo is too strong. 40% water is a decent amount, but inland seas means that a naval advantage won’t be decisive. The main value of Vikings then becomes the ability to hit from the fog with galleys.

The backup plan for Frederick if GLH seems like poor option would be to tech Metal Casting and run an engineer or two. Lot of flexibility in early engineers (Mids, Machinery bulb, Feudalism Bulb).
You might say that Pyramids without SPI is like half a wonder, and you’d be right, but frankly, I wasn’t too impressed by police state in the late game of PB63. I felt the need to be running Rep with Mercantilism the whole time because it was too much value just sitting on the table. Though maybe that was foolish since I averaged 20 base hammers per city. I never did run the numbers so who knows.
Long rambling 3am tangent over—I think Mids is still great with PHI even if no SPI.

[Charriu]

I wasn’t too impressed by police state in the late game of PB63.

Did you read my post about war weariness? If that would have been active in PB63 you would have had up to 11 unhappiness from that, but Police State can help with that.

[Miguelito]

PS was instrumental to us whipping out all those cataphracts in PB54, but maybe that was a special case where we really didn't care for research for a good while going forward.
Iirc Amica also ran PS while running over the world in 59 (researched fascism, so ofc different from what we're discussing)

I am confident that naval combat/dominance will be essential. Did you follow us in 59? We had a long running standoff with civac whom we shared the continent with, and it was all about holding the seas. I'd also expect relevant islands.

1st option then pick Vikings->Freddy?
I feel the itch for Spi, but we've both played that game, and I have not had Phi since noobing Pbem64. And I sure like the trait.
2nd Asoka -> HRE (/Aztecs?)

[Ginger()]

1st option then pick Vikings->Freddy?
I feel the itch for Spi, but we've both played that game,  and I have not had Phi since noobing Pbem64. And I sure like the trait.
2nd Asoka ->  HRE (/Aztecs?)

I agree with this. Although I’m not a fan of Aztecs, rather have Mongols/Mehmed-Zara if those backup choices are out.

[Miguelito]

I don't find the time, but do you want to check out if hunting/mining does anything amazing for us, like does immediate AH->BW substantially help with the settler or something?

[Ginger()]

Disclaimer: these were done in like 5min, no guarantee of quality
   
Turn 30 the settler and worker are ready to move on to new tasks 3 warriors done, BW 4 turns out. Might be able to speed up a turn by working flood instead of unimproved deer, but that might mess with the very neat lining up of growth and warrior completion. 

I tried with a hunting/mining but Bronze Working still won't finish before the worker is done improving the Sheep (I saved sheep for last)
I'm going to run one more test, except this time, the worker improves the sheep first for the 2 extra commerce it yields versus the Pig. 
—5 min later

Okay I just ran Hunt/Mining with sheep improved before pigs. It shaves 2 turns off of Bronze Working, and so the Worker can get started on a chop after one turn of idle (farm the floodplain, idk). This doesn't speed up the first settler, but the second worker comes a turn sooner, however we're also down a forest. 

To be perfectly honest, I think tech is going to be the biggest constraining factor in the early game, the start has way too much food to justify hammer savers like Exp/Imp. Likewise, I don't see a necessity to chop to get a small edge, because what's the earlier city worth if we don't have requisite techs to improve it's stuff?

[Miguelito]

Thanks. I guess our plan is to settle on the coast for second city if we can, and put Fishing to good use.
And wow is this different to PB90. I'm going to need some readjustment.

[Ginger()]

Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage

Random.org has decided as follows:
...
9. Miguelito + Ginger
....

more rage.

Coast to the west, pick Vikings anyways? Hunting is pretty good at least.

[Ginger()]

In my mind the two remaining options are Asoka HRE or Someone of Mongols (Civ fits nicely with the opportunity for either early pressure or our usual knight shenanigans)

If Asoka/HRE is the priority, maybe we first pick HRE and hope Asoka rolls? 2 hunting civs down already makes me nervous.

I doubt Jack or Magic Science want a SPI leader, and Vanrober played Asoka in his last game so maybe no repeat?

[Miguelito]

Sorry, went to bed early.
Very sad, that, yes. How could SD not pick Vikings literally and other game? I saw you picked Asoka and surely it'll be fun anyways. I'm down for HRE. Mongols are also for, although I wanted to do something different from a knights push for once. Is Hunting strictly necessary, or would a generic Mining pick like Mali also work? Edit: or India, compensating two lateish traits?