[SPOILERS] Out of retirement and into the fires of war. yuris125, Pitboss 68

[yuris125]

Well we're about to be the only non-Agg leader in the game. Hope it's not a mistake, and Bowmen to do the job keeping us safe

[naufragar]

1. Miguelito: Stalin of Japan (Start SE)
2. Yuri: Pericles of Babylon (Start NW)
3. Thoth: Kublai Khan of Rome (Start SW)
4. Commodore: Boudica of Native America (AGG/CHA) (NE)

Got any time for the customary smack talk opponent analysis? Lot of good plans here.

[yuris125]

I'm actually very time-constrained this week, working towards a tight deadline. But some quick thoughts:

Thoth: Kublai Khan of Rome - not much to say, it's a combo we were considering for ourselves (even if we were leaning Alexander rather than Kublai), gotta ready up our defences and hope he goes for Miguelito and not us
Commodore: Boudica of Native America - I'm actually more scared of this combo than of Agg Rome. With Vassalage / Theocracy / Barracks / Native American UB Commodore can mass-produce triple-promoted melee units with free Combat 1. That's hard to beat. The only saving grace is that the full potential of the combo doesn't unlock until relatively late (requires Feudalism and Theology) - but he will have units with Cover and whatever other promotions he has available to counter whatever we have. Our best bet at containing him will be defensive Catapults - but he's scary, and likely to come knocking before we establish the tech lead and just defend with superior units
Miguelito: Stalin of Japan - straightforward to pair an Ind leader with a civ with Forge-replacing UB, and he will be able to make a play for whatever wonders he wants. However his strength comes into play relatively late. I assume he has a good plan for defending against Praets, but hopefully his pick makes him a more attractive target for Thoth than ourselves. I feel like Macemen in general fell out of favour in RB games due to not faring that well against Longbows and Crossbows, and I don't know if Samurai, who are more or less fancy Macemen, will perform better. If Miguelito can even get to Samurai and not succumb to Praets

Ours is the most economy-oriented combo, largely because we elected not to go for Agg, which all three other players picked; if we can claim and hold our fair share of land, we should be able to ride it into tech lead. We would also benefit from Pyramids, which on such a small map translates to +3 happy in every city in addition to extra science from specialists, and we want to run specialists anyway. But I am worried that investing in Pyramids instead of units in this game will be an open invitation for our neighbours to come and take it from us. Main priority will be settling 4 cities in our corner of the map and getting some Bowmen going, then we'll see what kind of opportunities there are

[yuris125]

Some rough dotmapping plans

The timid safe option




Red = our capital (assume we're settling in place)
Orange = second city, a hill spot which doesn't look too aggressive to Commodore, but claims the contest furs on our border
Purple = gold city
Cyan = inner sea port

This is about as passive as we can get, staying close to our capital, not encroaching on land others may see as theirs. But I dislike ceding this much land to our south to Rome

The "praets? what praets?" option




Our gold city is much more advanced and also claims the ivory, and we settle a backline blue dot for the horses. The inner sea port is also further south to claim the sugar. This probably makes us too vulnerable to Rome though

In reality, I think we can get one of the two southern spots, but not both. Even if we did get a chance to claim both, it would be nightmare to defend, in addition to annoying the scary Roman neighbour. I imagine we will settle the gold city on the coal and cede the ivory to Thoth, but I would like to try for the inner sea port N of the sugar. With the landbridge leading to it from the Roman side, it is probably defensible, and between it and the orange dot it invalidates the entire landbridge between ourselves and Commodore as potential settling spots - Commodore ends up with the hill E of the northern fish as his inner sea port. Which tbf is not a bad spot, claiming two fishes - but this pattern ensures maximum possible distance between Commodore's cities and ours

Getting the orange dot for our second city is going to be crucial, if we can't settle that spot I will feel much less safe

[yuris125]

Did a few quick sims and couldn't find a better opening than the obvious. Settle in place, build Worker - Warrior - Warrior - Settler at size 3, research Mining - BW. This gets the Settler out T27, and assuming we road towards the furs spot, it gets settled T28

Anything else is slower, BW research is essential, the hammer from the copper under the capital speeds up the settler by whole two turns - if we play it in the safest possible way and research Archery before BW, Settler is only ready on T29

Hopefully that's fast enough. Nauf, if you have time to sim and find a tricky way to shave a turn off this timing, that would be great

Now, I am very concerned that Commodore has the option to research Archery first and try to contest our chosen spot. But two warriors on a hill should be good enough to defend against an Archer, right? Right?

I think Hunting - Archery has to be our next research after Mining - BW. I would dearly love to include Fishing, but feel that would be pushing our luck. In the sim Archery doesn't even finish until the second city is settled, and I feel we need the option to whip a Bowman if Commodore starts making threatening moves

In general I just hope that Commodore will be understanding about our second city choice, and won't be upset / fight over it too much. Once that spot is secured, out eyes firmly turn southward, towards the Roman threat and the land we want to contest with them

[yuris125]

I think Hunting - Archery has to be our next research after Mining - BW. I would dearly love to include Fishing, but feel that would be pushing our luck.

Actually never mind this, I tunnel visioned on bowmen too much. We can grow the capital to 4 after the settler is out and double-whip a safety Axe if need be. We should 100% research Fishing before Archery, there's too many seafood resources and we would be putting ourselves at a disadvantage if we neglect them for too long, especially when everyone else starts with Fishing

[naufragar]

I'll try to sim something out in the next few hours, although I won't have any real time until the weekend. Since settling in place and starting with a worker is pretty set, we should have some time to go over plans with a fine-toothed comb.

My immediate thought is that I don't know if 2 warriors is the correct number. 2 workers is usually a very solid opening. Might depend on Fishing? I'll check.

[yuris125]

Second worker would definitely delay a settler though. Building 2 warriors lets us grow to size 3 and work the two big food tiles + the 4 foodhammers banana while building a settler. I'm happy to go workboat instead of 2nd warrior, but think in a game like this an extra military unit, even as weak as a warrior, won't go amiss. At worst it will be a deterrent for other players' scouts attempting chokes. At best it will be the extra unit needed to defend the second city until a stronger defender arrives

I'm willing to consider the possibility that I'm obsessing too much over settling the second city as quickly as possible. But since luxuries between players are clearly intended to be contested, I'd like to lay our claim early. Plus if we don't get the hill spot next to the furs, our border with Commodore suddenly becomes less secure and more prone to tensions

[naufragar]

I'm happy to go workboat instead of 2nd warrior, but think in a game like this an extra military unit, even as weak as a warrior, won't go amiss. At worst it will be a deterrent for other players' scouts attempting chokes.

I'll keep fiddling, but I trust your plan.

What do you want to do with our own scout? We (and our neighbors) are about 4 scout moves away. Do we want to use it defensively? Offensively?

[yuris125]

I think defensively is the play. With our economy-oriented leader and defensive civ, we want to give our opponents as few reasons as possible to choose us rather than their other neighbour as target for aggression. Won't lie, part of me thinks it tempting to park a scout on one of Commodore's deer - as I mentioned before, vulnerability to scout chokes is one of the weaknesses of his start. But I really don't want to make sudden moves towards Commodore. As long as he's understanding about our second city, there's no reason for us to have tensions

Our plan for the first settler is rather tight, so I think we should do as much as possible to make sure other players don't stop us working tiles we want to work. So keeping scout at home (maybe after making contact with everyone?) is my preference