[Spoilers] luddite tries to remember how this game works

[luddite]

A funny thing occurred to me. With this variant, protective almost starts to make sense. I remembered an old forum thread (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/d...hs.301160/) where someone showed that with drill 4, a much stronger unit has a much higher chance of winning with zero damage. And protective is the best way to get drill 4 units...

Of course, that wouldn't help against horse archers. but it would against longbows, praetorians, etc.

[luddite]

Looks like I'm first to pick. It's hard to think through all the ramifications of this double snake pick. I need to see the starting locations but I'm inclined to just go for artillery right away.

[chumchu]

Artillery looks solid. You can definitely get something good on the way back with only 5 leaders

Drill is good against weaker units but I would not rate protective in this variant as opponents will have access to gunpowder units ignoring walls and castle or units that ignore first strikes. I would prefer charismatic which helps the artillery as well and gives us happiness which will be needed early if we want to whip out an army with 3-pop or 4-pop whips.

[pindicator]

I feel like Biology is start-dependent. If you see a starting position that needs or wants a couple farms then it seems like a strong contender

Maybe dependant on getting a lot of early happiness? With that, biology could grow like crazy. But otherwise you're just growing into unhappiness.

Anyway, sounds like espionage is going to get banned. So I won't be able to do anything too crazy like start with robotics and steal rifling for mechs, or build Cristo Redentor as Spiritual and stun-lock people with perpetual civic swaps.

Or a poor-food start. If you only have a couple flood plains for instance.

[luddite]

that's true, charismatic would also boost the artillery a bit. I don't think happiness will be as much of an issue though... doing 3 or 4-pop whips means you're not whipping as frequently.

Hmm, you know what else boosts siege units...? Spanish Castles. It's a shame Spain has such garbage starting techs though... but that might be a good choice of civ. And probably not one anyone else will pick, so I could put it off until last.

[luddite]

I feel like Biology is start-dependent. If you see a starting position that needs or wants a couple farms then it seems like a strong contender

Maybe dependant on getting a lot of early happiness? With that, biology could grow like crazy. But otherwise you're just growing into unhappiness.

Anyway, sounds like espionage is going to get banned. So I won't be able to do anything too crazy like start with robotics and steal rifling for mechs, or build Cristo Redentor as Spiritual and stun-lock people with perpetual civic swaps.

Or a poor-food start. If you only have a couple flood plains for instance.

true, if the start is *really* bad bio could salvage it. hopefully it's not that drastic though. I can pick a start with my 2nd/3rd pick, so hopefully I won't have the very worst start.

One interesting quirk of bio I just tested: it lets you build farms without fresh water, but it spread irrigation, so until you get civil service those farms are still just 3 food.

edit: just saw the starts. Yeah, I don't think any are so food poor that they really need bio? a lot of deer and fish resources that don't even really benefit from it. They do have a lot of happiness and stone for the pyramids, though.

[luddite]

Hmm... wish I knew for sure whether or not I'm isolated. But it seems like the odds of that are low.

[chumchu]

The starts are definitely RB-lush in terms of food. All starts except 3 gets decent mileage out of biology but it is not crucial for any of them.

No way to know but I would guess that it will be a 3/2 split for balance with some islands in between. I would think that no one is isolated until Astronomy as that would be really boring.

If you are worried about not getting mileage out of artillery, an interesting civ is the vikings. That way you can get your artillery deep into enemy lines or over the sea much easier. Hunting/fishing works for all starts except 4.
Spain is interesting but I think it is too slow if the plan is to conquer. Inca or India has a much faster start, especially with expansive. Celts for guerilla 2 anti-tanks is also a way to get more movement but it is too gimmicky I think. You might also pick a civ to pay for a conquest like Sumeria, HRE or Zulu if aggressive.

[luddite]

No way to know but I would guess that it will be a 3/2 split for balance with some islands in between. I would think that no one is isolated until Astronomy as that would be really boring.

Makes sense. A 3/2 split can still potentially mess me up though. If I get stuck in the 2, with my neighbor being someone who picks Rocketry, while the other 3 pick peaceful techs, that would be basically the worst possible outcome. On the other hand, if I start next to someone who has a peaceful tech and I have no other neighbors to worry about...  .

Do you think "some islands in between" would allow galleys to cross over, or would we need to research astronomy for that?

If you are worried about not getting mileage out of artillery, an interesting civ is the vikings. That way you can get your artillery deep into enemy lines or over the sea much easier. Hunting/fishing works for all starts except 4.
Spain is interesting but I think it is too slow if the plan is to conquer. Inca or India has a much faster start, especially with expansive. Celts for guerilla 2 anti-tanks is also a way to get more movement but it is too gimmicky I think. You might also pick a civ to pay for a conquest like Sumeria, HRE or Zulu if aggressive.

Yeah vikings would be an interesting pick. I'm thinking a lot about "what to do if I don't start next to a good target?" So I like the idea of showing up on a peaceful person's doorstep suddenly with nav2 galleys loaded with artillery. Celts would be funny but like you said... gimmicky. I might choose them with rocketry, but not with artillery. But my first choice is probably still Inca or India if they're available. I'm not too worried about paying for the conquest, i'm worried about making it happen at all.

[luddite]

Also: I wish I could read the other threads right now. I'm curious how other people reacted to me choosing artillery right off the bat..