I was able to load 4.0.1 and started simming today. Let the fun begin!
I wanted to get SIP results posted now so I didn't get bogged down later if I have to test the other sites once the game is live. I will tell you that this location is going to be hard to beat due to the proximity of the food and T0 plant.
SIP Trial #1
Just for kicks, I started with WB > WB to get quicker food and commerce. Got to start the Worker at Size 3 but ETA was T25, way too long to leave the Wheat unharvested.
SIP Trial #2
This time, I went Worker first and it followed the conventional build up: T12 worker > T19 Size 2 > T24 Size 3. However I found that the Worker was left with nothing to do after the Farm and a Mine. BW (in progress) and Wheel had not been developed yet.
SIP Trial #3
WB > Worker > WB. This actually worked quite well, getting us to Size 4 by T30. It was a nice compromise between the first two plans to still get some early growth. However a Settler would not come until T37 unless I whipped it, rendering temporarily useless two enhanced tiles. It just didn't sit right with me, so I went back to the drawing board. But here's a look at the results:
SIP Trial #4
WB > Worker > Quechua > Settler. This was more like it. I was able to chop out a Settler for T32 without resorting to the whip, leaving the city prepared for more growth and a new WB. I'm kind of excited now to see what our Scout reveals to the east, but I'm confident that the earlier Settler is the way to go here.
Tech Path
The Inca start with Agriculture and Mysticism. This was definitely not the ideal roll tech-wise, but getting a super cheap granary and a UU with a built-in promo left me no choice.
In all sims, I went with the following:
Fishing > Mining > BW > Wheel
I don't really see another way around it, based on what I set out to accomplish. So gambling on a premature, unsupported Chariot rush or an early religion are already out of the question.
My next techs will likely be Pottery > Sailing. I think it's going to be a fun game from a naval perspective and you can bet the earlybird will snatch some prime real estate beyond the mainland. I'm guessing with this crowd, my ETA doesn't even pass for early so time will tell.
Also, hut race? Who can foretell what glittering prizes await us on those distant shores?
I realized that I never simmed for a Mining > BW start, forgoing the early Crab. I just didn't think it would work. But it wasn't as bad as I thought:
Compare this to my Fishing-first start:
So there's actually a strong case for Mining first, in that we get to settle city #2 on T30, 3 whole turns before the Fishing start. Earlier BW also allowed this site to get one forest chop ahead the Crabs-fueled option. However:
-that chop was used on a Workboat.
-on T30, there was only one food source available between both cities.
-it's 2 turns behind in research compared to the Fishing start.
-more suboptimal use of tiles going this route.
The Fishing start has much more synergy, with techs typically becoming available right as needed. Also in a better position to build the next worker. But triggering city 2 earlier has its benefits as well. I think a sim to T50 for each may be necessary.
Also, settling 1S is OUT. In none of my test runs was it beneficial to put The Wheel before either Fishing or BW. Surrounded by forests and a hill, this site is too restrictive to build our first settler there.
1SE is still in play, but I've already started kicking the tires on early Moai SIP. I'm still intending to send the Scout this way to see if its discoveries are worth simming.
So I didn't execute the turn the way I originally planned it. In the end, it made no sense to put a capital 3 moves away from its workable seafood tiles. Eyes clenched, I called an audible and opened with blind SIP, allowing our newly founded capital to scout SE for us instead. This left our Scout to go a crooked 2E for intel our prospective city 2, since I still have to decide on an opening strategy.
So how did we do? Tell him what he's lost, Alex!
Not a damn thing, really. We didn't even get Jabah's extra flood plain!
Setting our sights to the east, pretty conventional stuff. I'll need AH to work the Cows.
Or will I?
Ignore the eastern cow, I'll have to do some housekeeping. Better yet, I'll create a whole new WB file to accommodate the RB74 mod, which is no big deal really. I just don't want to risk crashing the game or bouncing between versions all game.
But look at the possible opening move we're forging by settling roughly 3E directly on the Cows we can see. I think it's necessary to have a shared food start for openers and, while it may result in a net loss over time, the 3f city tile convincingly puts the whole growth thing on steroids and totally OPs the Inca's cheap Terraces.
But is it strong enough for me to go Mining first and unleash this dynamo site 3 turns earlier (T30) when the Fishing start has the edge on several factors as of T31 projections? I will have to find out...hopefully.
You see, I've set opening moves toward Fishing and recklessly ended the turn without confirming the best opening strategy. Reckless, but deliberate, since I feel I work best under pressure. This leaves me at the mercy of the remaining turnplayers, so tick-tock...
Ran some sims last night, and so far nothing to sway me from the Fishing start. However, I didn't have a unified plan since the play variables are beginning to increase drastically with each passing turn. I am going to set the following 2 control conditions to the sims I run tonight if I get in before the turn roll:
1. Revolt to Slavery on the turn of the Settler build. This is T28 for the Mining start and T32 for Fishing, so it looks like Mining somehow picked up another turn on its rival in regards to settling city #2.
2. Start city #2 on the Spices tile while I optimize the capital for growth with the real foodstuffs. It's a pretty serviceable tile, especially when you consider the capital will have 3 food. Mining start does lag a bit here, being a pop point down and still needing to net both Crabs.
I simmed to around T40 on both scenarios, with an emphasis on WBs, Workers and Quechuas. I had a Settler 5 turns out on T41 via Fishing start, but want to go back and test the whip strategy for Workers and Settlers with the new controls in place. Because in both cases, I was working several suboptimal tiles.
I'm aiming for 4 workers and 3 cities by T50 for now, but that could change once I lock in a path and tweak things even further. I'm really glad I didn't have to sim the SE site.
I've got to figure out the first few city names as well, as I don't think Death Valley will work for a plains hills start. There's still a chance I'll keep it ironically. I'll have it figured out by next turn.
(September 5th, 2023, 12:02)Mjmd Wrote: Thanks for in depth sim look, BUT you owe us stories!!!!
I know, I know! I am going to aim to get started on that project early next week now that my starting plan is in place. To catch us up, it's been a busy past couple days IRL so I wasn't able to complete a full start comparison. I really don't have a problem with the Fishing start since the Mining start had our capital languishing at Size 2 for too long in the T30's, delaying a possible worker. So now I'll hopefully be able to tweak this start to (what passes for me as) perfection.
(September 5th, 2023, 12:02)Mjmd Wrote: Also, I and others have considerable interest in how expansive Inca plays out, so when you get to that stage please keep us informed.
I am quite excited about this too, and am planning on keeping you all in the loop. As a preview, I'll likely be pre-chopping a Terrace on new city sites once I get Pottery so they can get the storage benefit at Size 2. And I think CRE is a great compliment for a variety of reasons.
If the map continues in this fashion, then I can definitely see why all eyes are on EXP Inca. Already I see the benefit of accelerating growth if a city is going to rely on dry Plains Wheat as its best chance for it, and the new fresh water feature to the Terrace will allow me to farm nearby tiles that would otherwise have to wait until Civil Service. Especially in places that don't have a fresh water lake!
Anyway, here's a look:
And let's look a bit closer. I haven't seen one of these in awhile so I almost missed it.
I'm not usually one to double back, but I'm looking forward to seeing what these villagers will provide. I hope it's not Fishing...
I actually take that back on getting Fishing from the hut, though it would require me to sim again. I'm currently using the 3h tile to get the WB in 6 turns. but will need to delay it to 7 turns by moving to Wheat on T5. This plan allows me to store 4 food (integral in moving from Size 1 > 3 between T22-25) as well as send the WB to the far Crabs so I don't have to scramble later to support city #2. But it's got to be good to get the 4 food a turn earlier, as well as hastening the Worker build, right? We'll cross that bridge upon researching Construction next turn if it pans out.
Popped the hut and yielded 38g. That will at least allow me to skip a couple waves of binary research. As of last turn only Commodore, Miguelito and Piccadilly have gotten tech from the huts. I am glad to see the dice roll go to those that need it the most.
Also found another Spice in the fogged tile south of the existing one. CRE borders popped this turn yielding nothing else truly substantial. I'll post another screenshot next turn.
I meandered the Scout SW to unveil a bit more of the radius around the capital. I'm considering a loose build this time out, exploiting CRE to grab more land with fewer cities. This has it's pros and cons, mostly making to tougher to be conquered but also tougher for me to rally troops to defend outlier sites. I'll come up with a dotmap shortly, but I'd like to plant on as many suboptimum tiles as possible. Not sure if I'd ever favor the tundra for city 2 instead of my beloved Cow city; I guess it depends on what the nearby sea reveals. Because of this, and the protected capital, I'm considering a Scout instead of a Quechua once the Worker is complete to get more favorable hut results in the NE.
And while we're on the subject: zooming in, another hut coming up next turn in the south. With only 3 turns left in Fishing, still rooting for getting a different tech from the villagers. Possible settlement on the desert tile 2N of the Rice. This site would share no tiles with the capital, yet boasts 3 Flood Plains, the Rice, hills for some decent production...and 2 other desert tiles.
I moved capital production to Wheat this turn. I considered simming a Turn 6 build of the WB by retaining the 3h tile, to see if I could get the Worker out faster. Except I'd still get the Worker on T17 either way. The key here is the 1h overflow from the next two turns of production using Wheat, as it pays back the 59/60 production deficit the Worker would have after 10 turns. Had I completed the WB this turn at an even 30, the Worker would still be 2 hammers short as of T16, plus we'd have no food stored to parlay the mid-20s growth spurt.
I am going to aim to get started on that project early next week now that my starting plan is in place. To catch us up, it's been a busy past couple days IRL so I wasn't able to complete a full start comparison. I really don't have a problem with the Fishing start since the Mining start had our capital languishing at Size 2 for too long in the T30's, delaying a possible worker. So now I'll hopefully be able to tweak this start to (what passes for me as) perfection.
