[Spoiler] PBEM12 Lurker thread - No players!

[SevenSpirits]

Not to be too pedantic, but while techs are indeed 23% cheaper, research is 30% faster. E.g. in the time you could research 10 techs on a standard map, you can research 13 techs on a duel map.

For comparison, a library (at 100% research rate) makes techs effectively be 20% cheaper, or research go 25% faster.

[Ruff_Hi]

Gaspar is getting closer to the map layout ...

[Square Leg]

How many Shakira pictures are we going to see by the end of this game?

[Ruff_Hi]

Okay, one other thing before I go: Let's talk a bit about this map.

(Warning: Pics to follow which do not come from this actual game.)

We (the players at large) told Ruff we wanted some elbow room, but not so much that war was totally impossible. And he played in RBP3, in which (thanks to Emperor difficulty and an unusually small, square, toroidal "Huge" map) maintenance costs made conquest a recipe for economic disaster. So, I think he wanted to make sure that wouldn't be the case here.

That may not be right though - because if so, there's a bit of a problem: The combination of Prince difficulty, Quick speed, and a "Duel" map size mean tech rate is going to be ridiculous, particularly with all the financial leaders in this game (and us philosophical types do have some leverage of our own to use). What's more, with all the forests in the way, any army that anyone tries to muster is going to be obsolete on arrival. By the time they slog thr... what? What's that you say? Someone to see me? But I wasn't expecting anybody!



But that's Mr. Impi! He lives way off on the other side of the forest! Why did you ... hey ... what's that little crossed-arrows-looking thing in the lower left over there?



Aiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Y'see, those 2-move Zulu Impis start with Mobility, which means they're fast-movers who can ignore forests! (Also, the ones in this game are the Aggressive kind, which means they can jump out of cheap Ikhandas with Combat 1 plus any number of joyous things like City Raider or Shock or Cover or Combat 2, or even just Woody 1 (terrific for choking on a map like this one). They might even meet some barbs to kill en route, and nab even sillier promotions. Now, fortunately, axes eat even Shock Impis for breakfast, and they still have to cross the distance between civs (though two tiles at a time). And they do require copper, and it's going to be a while before the Zulus (or anyone else) know where we are. But mounted units (like Cataphracts) can get mobility too if they can get up to 10xp, and of course forests don't get in the way once they're chopped down or roaded through.

The point is, there will be opportunities for war on this map. They'll come when civs have settled toward each other, over roads built for trade routes (no rivers or coast in sight yet!) or through cleared territory where borders meet. They'll come through the forests, in the form of units promoted to Woody II. (Just 5 xp: Barracks plus Vassalage or Theo. This is another reason that chopping forests is a Good Thing[tm] - in fact, it may prevent certain forks instead of allowing them!) And when the war is over, the conqueror can hold the new-claimed land ... without suffering complete economic meltdown.

Ruff does tend to know what he's doing, you know.

No he doesn't - he just throws things up in the air and sometimes they come down in pretty patterns. The duel setting was a joke to try and cut down on maintenance and, if I understand t-hawk's posts - it increased maintenance and screwed other things too.

[Ilios]

Wow, that was kind of a reach city that Whosit planted there. No Workers to improve the lands, no road connection, nothing... Nothing but high upkeep costs...

[novice]

Re: Whosit, yeah, the lurkers tried to warn him...

Anyway, Kyan has a keen sense of smell:

Notice the demographics, this combined with our score is going to keep me very busy on the diplomatic front. I can almost smell Nakor plotting already a la PB2. Well, it didn't work on India the sonnyjim and it certainly isn't going to cut the mustard here either.

I figured since Malakai is our closest friend thus far, he was a safe option to float a trial balloon re: the India problem. Not saying we actually should/need to do anything yet, but now is probably as good a time as any to see how the other players feel. My main concern actually isn't seeing if we can generate military action yet, as clearly its too soon, but rather ensuring nobody develops a good working relationship with India. If we can isolate them diplomatically early, it should work to eventually turn the screw against them late. The key of course, is somehow doing that without them figuring out we're the "masterminds," since that would paint a giant target on our Civ, and as we've stated before, we'd be far better the later we go to war.

You have designed the perfect dogpile scenario, Ruff.

[Ruff_Hi]

You have designed the perfect dogpile scenario, Ruff.

No I haven't ... have I? If India doesn't want to get dog piled, then they should not leverage their FWorker so much. Totally their fault.

Well - that is what I am going to keep telling myself.

[novice]

If India doesn't want to get dog piled, then they should not leverage their FWorker so much. Totally their fault.

Nah, they should use the Spullla approach and leverage it so well that they can withstand a 5v1. Actually, that ought to be more doable on this map, since early warfare is off for logistical and tech rate reasons.

[novice]

Whosit and GE both pink dot the same random lake with nothing but lush city sites in all directions? Bizarre. Who do they think they're blocking? And now GE changed his mind and is doing a Quecha rush instead? +100 for novelty, I'll give him that.

[T-hawk]

Yeah, does a quechua rush ever work in multiplayer? Just warriors on defense beat them, and a single axe and it's all over.