[SPOILERS] - WK does it again

[WarriorKnight]

The rival average power has increased by 17000 in just 2 turns, which is kinda shocking. How is everyone else managing to expand on this map and build an army while not going broke? I'm barely managing to tech myself. I have NAP's with 3/4 civs, so I should be pretty safe (only one I lack is against Rome, who haven't responded to my greeting message. I'm guessing they'll treat everyone the same way, but I'm building a couple of axes just to be safe).

I've also decided to try for the Mids, and I think I have a pretty good chance of building them. It's very expensive for a non-IND civ to build it without stone (of which there is none of on the map) and Serdoa would be IMO silly to try for a 3rd wonder this early. Rep would be very helpful in my current situation, and if I miss it somehow then the fail gold will be very nice as well.

[WarriorKnight]

Had a greeting chat with mackoti (apparently dave is away, hence the reason for no response). He wants to be my friend and signed a T100 NAP. With a full set of NAP I can get away with not building military until I get my finances back in order.

Downside is now I've pretty much got a border agreement with everybody (only exception is Serdoa, for some reason we haven't really ironed out any details about it), and since mackoti requested confidentiality I can't just say whatever I want anymore. Fortunately the border agreement situation isn't be too bad (despite the limited space the maintenance on this map will ensure that it'll be a while before I run out of room) and given everyone is my neighbor I have flexibility on who I want to invade if I run out of room.

Other interesting info in the chat, he's annoyed that Serdoa and plako have Gold and Gems while he has ivory. Perhaps one of those two are his targets? (Serdoa seems more likely as he's built 2 wonders already) Wouldn't mind any conflict in that area.

Also TMIT seems to be rapidly increasing his power, wonder if he's going to invade someone or is just paranoid? He's definitely a wildcard ATM.

[WarriorKnight]

Suppose I should update, but everything interesting in this game is currently happening elsewhere. Since plako hasn't managed to secure a NAP with anyone but me, he's naturally quite paranoid about an attack. TMIT and olemack both have really high power ratings, and I suspect one or both of them plan to attack plako.

I can't see olemack's graphs yet, but TMIT still seems to be broke building all these units. I can't really see either of them being a major factor later on unless the war against plako goes really well. plako likely won't be a factor either if he's dogpiled. Serdoa I'm not too sure about currently, he's drawn a lot of attention to himself with 2 wonders plus Buddhism, but if he can sail through that without getting attacked, then he'll be in good shape.

I plan to get Mono around T60, and the Mids around T62, if anyone's interested.

[CFCJesterFool]

I can't really see either of them being a major factor later on unless the war against plako goes really well.

You do realize that "there can only be one" right? Unless you can tech at least a military tech BEYOND the best military tech possessed by the war participants while the war rages, once the war is finished you will be at a severe disadvantage assuming the war target is eliminated. Economic techs will be worthless IF confronted by a VETERAN military force. You are not playing against an AI - humans will, and tend to protect, promoted units. Remember, if you are fixing to go broke, an army CAN ONLY attack a city (pillage gold) to avoid strike. If you have iron, machinery/civil service should be beelined. That way, once the war is concluded, crossbows/macemen should prevent any shenanigans by the victors of the war. Longbows would be okay too but that wouldn't be my tech path (even against an AI).

[WarriorKnight]

Ohhh, a lurker post.

You do realize that "there can only be one" right? Unless you can tech at least a military tech BEYOND the best military tech possessed by the war participants while the war rages, once the war is finished you will be at a severe disadvantage assuming the war target is eliminated. Economic techs will be worthless IF confronted by a VETERAN military force. You are not playing against an AI - humans will, and tend to protect, promoted units. Remember, if you are fixing to go broke, an army CAN ONLY attack a city (pillage gold) to avoid strike. If you have iron, machinery/civil service should be beelined. That way, once the war is concluded, crossbows/macemen should prevent any shenanigans by the victors of the war. Longbows would be okay too but that wouldn't be my tech path (even against an AI).

I'm aware of this, if there was one game where the winner would be decided while everyone is in the ancient age, it would be this one. Although there isn't much point in building military before I have some sort of economic edge, as otherwise I'll just be behind TMIT/olemack in both categories. My main obstacle economically is currently happiness, both the Mids and Judaism should help with that. After that, I should be in a much better position to build military.

I also don't think I need medieval units, all I need are cats (obviously medieval units will be nice, but I doubt they're essential). Given stacks are formed this early, I doubt that either TMIT or olemack will reach Construction to build cats before I reach medieval units. Diplomacy has also helps me get the time I need to prepare, Rome isn't much of a problem since they're locked into a NAP until T100. TMIT is only locked until T70, but I hope I can get an extension while he's busy warring with plako.

[WarriorKnight]

Errr...



Hmmm, well I guess I'm not too surprised at everyone else dogpiling plako (he's been paranoid about that ever since we met), although it certainly is worrying that I could be next. Went ahead and confronted Rome about this:

me: hey
David: morning
me: actually it's evening where i am
but evening nonetheless
David: heh, just woke up
22:52 how can I help you?
me: we need to talk about PBEM25
22:53 just played the save, and its interesting to see that you, along with serdoa and TMIT have declared on plako
22:54 now, obviously this war doesnt involve me, and i dont mind that
22:57 i dont really know how to say this, so forgive me if i take some time to say it
David: it's all good
22:58 me: but im certainly a little paranoid that you three have joined together to take out plako
22:59 i gotta ask, am i next?
David: not to my knowledge, no, unless Serdoa and TMIT are planning something under the table
23:00 we have no plans to attack you
me: fair enough, i hope you can understand my position
23:01 David: valid concern, this is more or less an alliance just to remove one player from the game, nothing permanent
though, I'm reading the latest email fallout now, and things are not going well
23:02 me: well, i cant really tell, being the only not involved
23:04 i guessing right now we'll just have to see what the result of the dogpile is
23:05 David: pretty much
if anyone is qualified to stop a praet rush
it's Plako
me: anyway, thanks for informing me of what's going on
23:06 David: no problem
me:
David: have fun expanding like crazy while we duke it out
me: pfft, you know how bad the maintanence on this map is
David: oh, and you should build a wonder or two before Serdoa gets them all
23:07 me: is he going wonder crazy?
23:08 David: which I cannot elaborate on further because of confidentiality with Serdoa
me: fair enough

Well, I'm not convinced that the dogpile will split after plako taken down, since I'm the only one expanding I'll probably have to be dogpiled to prevent getting too far ahead. Guess I better get completely on board with plako, and even consider a straight beeline to Construction after grabbing Mono.

Serdoa continuing to build wonders is interesting (I guess you got to spend production somewhere, although he'll be painting a target on his back later). Looks like I may be in a race for the Mids after all. Unless he went for Masonry crazy early I think I'll still have a decent shot at it.

Sent this to plako:

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Hey again,

Chatted with Rome, and this snippet came up:

[COLOR="Purple"]David: valid concern, this is more or less an alliance just to remove one player from the game, nothing permanent
though, I'm reading the latest email fallout now, and things are not going well [/COLOR]

Not sure if it's helpful to you or not, but it's the only relevant thing that came up. I've also attached my power graph of T58 containing TMIT and Serdoa's power level. At this point there's nothing else I can do, although I will continue to do what I can to assist.

BTW, I would request that you to keep these messages between us only, although I already know that you won't tell the others given your situation.

Best of luck,
WK[/COLOR]

As said before, I better help him as much as I can (which given my NAP's with the others, isn't a whole lot) as I know for a fact he's definitely an ally. I hope that the others remain friendly too, although that's less certain now.

[CFCJesterFool]

As said before, I better help him as much as I can (which given my NAP's with the others, isn't a whole lot) as I know for a fact he's definitely an ally. I hope that the others remain friendly too, although that's less certain now.

Early crossbows will MAKE everybody friendly (enough) with you. I assume praets would be promoted to combat I/shock to deal with dog soldiers and they would be helpless to combat I crossbows. Add in a few spears and nothing anybody could throw at you (without seige) would be threatening in the least. It would seem that Plako might even hold off on his own, judging by Olemack's email. The longer the war, the better for you, especially if you land the mids. I don't see anybody keeping up in tech if you run max scientists+rep and they are still bogged down in war.

[WarriorKnight]

Early crossbows will MAKE everybody friendly (enough) with you. I assume praets would be promoted to combat I/shock to deal with dog soldiers and they would be helpless to combat I crossbows. Add in a few spears and nothing anybody could throw at you (without seige) would be threatening in the least. It would seem that Plako might even hold off on his own, judging by Olemack's email. The longer the war, the better for you, especially if you land the mids. I don't see anybody keeping up in tech if you run max scientists+rep and they are still bogged down in war.

OK, first I've got to ask you, are you a dedicated lurker? If so great, but I'm guessing your not since you've posted in TMIT's thread. In which case, you may want to keep any suggestions to yourself as suggestions by a non-dedicated lurker could be seen as spoilerish. (Don't get me wrong, I appreciate lurker posts, but suggestions by global lurkers are frowned upon).

Anyway, crossbows certainly would make everyone 'friendly' towards me , of that I have no doubt. Problem is, it's so early I don't have monarchy, math or anything past that. Teching Construction would take half the time of teching Machinery, and I will probably need stuff like Calendar and Currency before I can seriously consider teching Machinery. However, if I can get a GE from the Mids, if the situation is serious enough I may consider bulbing Machinery, but that's a long way into the future.

Anyway, expected diplo from plako:

[COLOR="Sienna"]Hi,

Thank you for your info and encouragement. I won't use your info directly without your approval. Early fights have been very good for me, but it is still very dire situation. Rome's stack is pretty scary having 8 Praets + 2 Axes + Spear and there are at least 1 more Praet behind them. I've hard time stopping that, but I'm most certainly not dying at least before catapults. TMIT's units in my territory are all dead now and I think I should be able to handle Serdoa's current stack so Rome is the main concern. Longer term I'm obvivously fighting a losing battle. Unless diplo situation changes I'll be dead, but that will take a quite a long time.

Best regards,
Plako[/COLOR]

And a unexpected message from Serdoa:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey WK,

(FFHXII Spoilers)

I wanted to talk with you about PBEM25 though. I ask you to keep everything I tell you secret between us two and assume that you agree to that. If not, please don't read further.

You probably have seen that TMIT, mackoti and I have declared war on plako. There are several reasons for why I declared war, one certainly being that I met Rome first and that I didn't want them to hit me, I agreed on several suggestions (not allowed to go into detail). Anyway, I am planning now for after this war and as we are nearing T60, so we only have 20 turns left on our NAP. I was wondering if you would want to consider extending it? I could see T100 or T120 even. Maybe we could also open up trade routes with each other then?

Let me know please what you think. I certainly would be happy to work more closely with you.

Kind regards,
Serdoa
[/COLOR]

Well if plako is successful in holding off the other three, and if the three of them are all interested in increasing relations with me, then this is starting to look like the dream diplo scenario for me. I replied as so:

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Hey Serdoa,

(Spoilers, again...)

Anyway, regarding PBEM25:

I will keep this confidential. I would request that you do the same (I'm sure you would, but you weren't clear in your message).

TBH I was kinda surprised when I learnt 3 of the 4 other players had teamed up to dogpile the last civ. I guess my main concern was that I could be next possible target. However, since your offering a NAP extension, I have to assume this isn't the case. In that case I'm happy with the intention of working more closely.

A NAP until T120 would suit me best, and I would like to sign that. As for trade routes, I currently have a full set of trade routes from elsewhere, although I'm still happy to sign OB. If you want a benefit from them though, I'm pretty sure you'll need Sailing yourself (since the reason why we have a connection is because I have Sailing).

Regards,
WK[/COLOR]

So that makes olemack and Serdoa with no intention of attacking me. As for TMIT, I've sent a catchup message to him also requesting a NAP extension to T110. If that gets accepted, I'll feel a lot better about my position.

[CFCJesterFool]

OK, first I've got to ask you, are you a dedicated lurker? If so great, but I'm guessing your not since you've posted in TMIT's thread.

I posted a personal, non civ message (HOMM3 related) and made fun of his thread title (since he hadn't posted in a while). Did not ask about the game or give any advice. I sure didn't give or hint any spoiler info to you. Anyway, glhf.

[WarriorKnight]

Well fuck.



There goes that plan. Time to make a new one.

With Rep happiness out of reach, Monarchy is easily the tech I need the most right now, since HR + wines will solve my happy cap problem. Settler being built in cap will go settle the wines, and I'll need IW to remove the Jungle.

The only silver lining is that I can run 100% for 8-10 turns or so, which is actually quite significant given the slow tech rate on this map. Grabbed Priesthood this turn (not finishing Mono, Priesthood is cheaper, may finish that for the pre-req bonus nonetheless though) and will next head to Monarchy then IW (to clear the Jungle from the wines).

Not sure after that, I've secured NAP extensions with TMIT and Serdoa until T110 and T120 so military techs don't need to be immediately pursued. Best option is probably to head to Currency then CoL. MC would be great for cheap forges if the tech speed weren't so bad, and not much else sounds appealing.