btw the theme is going to be musical cats so any suggestions for groups/songs that involve cats. i fear i may have to raid the old gits record collection for inspiration and yes he does have vinyl or i could just google
edit: god i need a shower after handling those. saw cat stevens and stray cats then i came across the soundtrack to "cats" the musical. umm use the character names?
2nd edit: taken from wiki
Asparagus
Bombalurina
Bustopher Jones
Demeter
Grizabella
Griddlebone
Growltiger
Jellylorum
Jemima
Jennyanydots
Macavity
Mr. Mistoffelees
Mungojerrie
Old Deuteronomy
Rumpleteazer
The Rum Tum Tugger
Skimbleshanks
Victoria
Admetus
Alonzo
Bill Bailey
Carbucketty
Cassandra
Coricopat
Electra
Etcetera
Exotica
Ghengis or Gilbert
George
Plato
Pouncival
Rumpus Cat
Pollicles
Tumblebrutus
Tantomile
Victor
so kyan via thestick has gone for louis xiv - cre/ind - i fucking knew that wonder-whore would choose ind
Current advice, subject to change without prior notice: Use cheap terraces and workers to rex like mad, get pottery and bronzeworking early, ignore the religious techs and place a low priority on the early wonders, leverage a more-than-our-fair-share amount of land and a fin-boosted cottage economy into a sizeable tech lead, and use that tech lead to grab cuirassers or someother "large step above the previous level" military unit before our opponents can grab a counter, build/whip/draft a huge army, and conquer our continent. If our opponents haven't conceeded by then, plan a naval invasion.
This plan is not sexy; it's not cool; it's not even exceptionally clever. It is, however, powerful, efficent, and effective.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
rex? ah think kyan mentioned this rapid expansion. but isnt that more for an imperial with the quicker settlers? yeah i like the cottage economy, think im doin well on that in pbem33 but maybe need a couple more workers haha
tech queue is mining - bronzeworking - wheel - pottery
TheMusicMan Wrote:rex? ah think kyan mentioned this rapid expansion. but isnt that more for an imperial with the quicker settlers? yeah i like the cottage economy, think im doin well on that in pbem33 but maybe need a couple more workers haha
tech queue is mining - bronzeworking - wheel - pottery
the first worker may have something to farm the second can join in mining or cottaging every open space
Well, Imperialistic is better at building settlers, but getting quicker workers and half-price terraces (and later, half price harbors, which might be useful on a map with two contients) is much better at getting those cities into useful status. If I want to rapidly expand and grab lots of land, I think I would actually choose expansive over imperialistic about 85-90% of the time, probably 99% when combined with Inca.
What is your reasoning for building a quecha first? Normally building a worker first is much more effective since getting that first tile improved is very important, although there are exceptions (such as being worried about safety).
Edit: I like the tech path you've picked. I'd only change it if we get some nice animal husbandary or fishing resources, maybe if we also have deer and little food elsewhere.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Merovech Wrote:What is your reasoning for building a quecha first? Normally building a worker first is much more effective since getting that first tile improved is very important, although there are exceptions (such as being worried about safety).
a bit of safety and chance to explore more. the city also grows and therefore can build the worker quicker so less time not growing. the farmers gambit* is all well and good but im up against better players who will see me as a soft target.
TheMusicMan Wrote:a bit of safety and chance to explore more. the city also grows and therefore can build the worker quicker so less time not growing. the farmers gambit* is all well and good but im up against better players who will see me as a soft target.
*yeah another thing kyan taught me
Okay. Safety is always a concern, though for reference, and in case you change your mind in this or a future game, I would like to show some math as to why we will probably actually grow more slowly if we wait to build the worker. Although this situation makes many assumptions, the conclusion actually holds true for the vast majority of starts.
All numbers are for quick speed, although the ratios and therefore the conclusion is roughly the same for all speeds:
We might not be able to get the expansive bonus to worker production at first, so let's assume we don't (with the bonus, worker first comes out even better compared to warrior first while growing). Let's also assume that we are not planted on a plains hill and we have three different three food tiles to work, like a dry unimproved corn and two unimproved rices, one of which is lakeside and right next to the capital, and that these are our only resources/good tiles (this is so that we would work the same tiles no matter which way we start, it also makes the math simpler).
Going quecha first, at size 1, we would produce 1 hammer and 3 (excess) food per turn at size 1 and 1 hammer and 4 (excess) food per turn at size two. It takes 14 food (five turns) to grow to size 2 and 10 hammers (10 turns) to build a quecha. It takes 16 food to grow from size 2 to size 3(4 turns). Assuming that we complete the quecha, we would start the worker on the 11th turn, at size 3. We would produce 1 hammer and 5 (excess) food per turn. Let's assume we build something besides a settler or worker next (doesn't make a big difference, but means I have to write less )
The worker takes 40 food + hammers to build (7 turns), then moves to the lakeside rice, where it completes a farm (takes three turns) on the 20th turn.
After turn 20, we are size 3, with 10 food in the food box and 3 production into whatever we are building. We make 7 food and 1 hammer per turn and have 1 worker and 2 quechas.
Now, going worker first, at size 1, we would produce 1 hammer and 3 (excess) food per turn (like above), so it takes 10 turns to build the worker. On the 11th turn, we start on a quecha, while the worker moves to the lakeside rice and farms it. After farming it, he moves to farm the dry corn, then the dry rice, although these actions do not matter until we grow. On turn 11 and 12, we produce 1 hammer and 3 (excess) food per turn, and on turn 13 and 14 we produce 1 hammer and 5 (excess) food per turn, so we grow to size two after turn 14.
On turn 15 and 16, we work the farmed wet rice and dry corn for 1 hammer and 8 (excess) food per turn, with 2 food left over from growing from size 1 to size 2.
We grow to size 3 after turn 16, picking up the farmed dry rice. We are now making 1 hammer and 10 food per turn, with 2 food left over from growing from size 2 to 3.
Since it takes 17 food to grow from size 3 to size 4, we grow to size 4 after turn 18, with 5 food in the food box. Let's say at this point we pick up a plains hill mine (a likely possibility). On turn 19, we are making 5 hammers and 8 food per turn. We finish the quecha after turn 19, with 3 hammers of overflow.
After turn 20, we grow again, to size 5, with 2 food in the food box, and 8 hammers into whatever we are making after the quecha. Let's say we pick up a grassland hill mine. We make 7 food and 8 hammers per turn and have 1 worker and 2 quechas.
This means that after just 20 turns on quick speed (about 27 turns on normal speed) we have the same number of units, an additional 2 (well, 1 and a half) population, the same amount of food per turn, and signficantly more production (7 hammers per turn versus 1 hammer per turn), as well as more hammers already into whatever we are building next. At this point, we would actually be much more able to defend ourselves, expand, chase wonders, or whatever else we want to do than if we went quecha first.
Edit: Aww, the tabs in my post didn't come out. Sorry if it is hard to read.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I also advise against building a quechua first. It is unlikely we will be needing it for defense that early, and it will set back early growth massively. We get little benefit out of growth when we don't have good tiles to grow into. Going worker first is done in the vast majority of all starts, main reason to go warrior first on occasion is being Spiritual and starting with Mining. That way we can tech BW and use the growth to whip the first worker.
Merovech's math is sound, but very lengthy My main argument why warrior first is a very bad economy decision is that growing into bad tiles is a bad idea, unless you're getting ready to double whip.
Another vote for worker first. If no barbs then we can follow with scout for fast exploring (i.e keep Q close scouting then send scouts (while growing) to map it out/find people)
Vote against early wonders. Exp Inca is all about Rexing, and though it isn't flashy, it works, Oracle requires delaying worker techs for something we might miss.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
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Sorry if it is hard to read.
My main argument why warrior first is a very bad economy decision is that growing into bad tiles is a bad idea, unless you're getting ready to double whip.
