[LURKERS] Sweet 16: Civ Party Fun Time and Philosophical Debate

[Serdoa]

cylindrical or toroidal?

Not decided yet. I was thinking about pushing one and two into the outer ring to 3-8. I could put 2 in each corner and wrap toroidal. Would make 9-12 have a landbased game mostly while 1-8 have an more island-based one. Though that's not actually balanced as the inner circle still have an easier game IF one of them can win the inner circle completely. Probably have to make the island game easier. Maybe but 2 of 1-8 in each corner but on one big island together. Whoever wins it will be in a strong position, but due to littered islands across all of them not in a "certain win"-position.

[Old Harry]

Nice idea, assume all accessible pre-astronomy?

Islands should tech slightly quicker early on due to intercontinental trade routes, and if an inner-circle civ conquers three other civs they probably should win the game shouldn't they?

Ban vikings and TGL?

[darrelljs]

Its a cool concept but people will whine about balance. Then again, people are going to whine anyway so don't let that stop you.

Darrell

[Qgqqqqq]

I like it, especially if toroidial. You could also put six teams in the centre and increase land proportionally.
Its not balanced, but its more balanced then many games here.

[Bigger]

Stewie would rather have a sexy lingerie party.

me too!

BTW, Noble is just being Noble. And Seven is just being Seven. They don't really hate (well hating from Noble is). They are just outspoken and have rigid personalities. Noble is more anal, and Seven is more righteous. When something feels off to either of them they both become abrasive. Noble intentionally so, Seven unintentionally (mostly). Jowy just reacts negatively to things and exacerbates issues.

I haven't seen anything in the settings thread that I think is out of character or particularly malicious given the people involved. In fact, I would say its about normal.

I'm not saying that words and attacks don't hurt, and I'm not absolving anyone of their actions. I would also like it if there was no drama. I'm simply saying that it happens and its understandable.

As for the game's roster... Yeah Seven's likely going to stomp, and new players may have a rough go, but I think most of them know what they're getting into. As lurkers we can say it going to be train wreck, but until the game is played we have no idea what is going to happen. We're just naturally pessimistic. PB6 started out badly with everyone predicting flames, but in the end it was actually highly competitive on multiple fronts and a game worth playing.

Let's reserve a bit of judgment until we actually see what happens.


It's good to see you Bob.

ok, but pb6 had 3 highly competitive teams.. the 4th team was still a train wreck and pretty much as predicted. I think Bob has a point about mixing some of the best players @ RB w/ some of the... more average players. But perhaps we spend too much time on RB sometimes trying to manipulate the game before it starts - we should just play it out and see what happens .

I am concerned that this game is going to end up closer to pb7 than pb6, though.

For those interested, that was the first rough idea for my map:




As clarification: The arrows meant to indicate which second island the outer players would be set up to get, mainly via making it visible from the start and starting them more towards that side of their island.

9,10,11,12 would have more land holdings (easier to defend) but also direct neighbours (harder to defend) making it probably about equal between them and 4-8. The real issue is 1,2 and 3. 3 has too many neighbours and if 1 or 2 can take out the other they have the biggest landmass that will be easiest to defend. I was thinking if I could do something with the wrap to prevent that but it doesn't seem so. Maybe I can though.

Either way, if a map is not absolutely symmetrical it is nearly impossible to balance it fairly between all players. Someone will always have a better position in certain situations.

looks really cool and interesting. not sure its possible to make fair, though. besides the issues you mention w/ 1,2, and 3, the inner ring and outer ring players might as well be on a different map - the buffer ring will make it very difficult for them to engage each other. how thick is the separating ring? Maybe make it only 1 spot thick in several spots to make it easier to set up canal cities?

I like the idea, its creative, don't abandon it

[Bigger]

I like it, especially if toroidial. You could also put six teams in the centre and increase land proportionally.
Its not balanced, but its more balanced then many games here.

this is a boring solution, but probably less of a headache for balancing purposes.

[Qgqqqqq]

looks really cool and interesting. not sure its possible to make fair, though. besides the issues you mention w/ 1,2, and 3, the inner ring and outer ring players might as well be on a different map - the buffer ring will make it very difficult for them to engage each other. how thick is the separating ring? Maybe make it only 1 spot thick in several spots to make it easier to set up canal cities?

I don't think it'll take very long for them to engage - about the same timeframe as PB5/8, which also had seperate areas, but they still influence one another. Agreed with the second bit, but just dot it with lakes instead.

[Qgqqqqq]

BRick already pointed it out, but for emphasis:

well i think you wrong about how bad other leaders are.For example i think Bismark is beter then Mansa for example to say.Diferent leaders ask diferent strategies to play.Yes finacial is most easy to play but not as rewarding like others combo.

Okay okay serious now. I was thinking choosing Bismarck because obviously FIN is overrated.

Retep may not actually be mackoti, but there's certainly some shared wavelength there...

[Serdoa]

Thanks for all the input guys, it helps. Regarding your questions:

- the middle ring is meant to be only 1 or 2 tiles wide, maybe on some spaces 3 and maybe on some no land at all. Riff-like basically

- I agree that the inner and outer ring players are kinda playing their own game each. Though I think thats something that will generally happen with 12 teams if you don't specifically build the map to get all of them on the same landmass with as many direct borders as possible.

- TGL not banned, Vikings I'm unsure, probably yes. Why not TGL? Because the inner 4 are intended to start near the inner sea, what makes it unimportant for them. And the other ones are meant to start on islands, but big ones, with not every city having coastal-access. That still should make TGL strong, but not so strong that I needs to be banned imo.

[zakalwe]

The great lighthouse can be really, really, powerful. Then again, there's nothing inherently wrong with being able to win the game by landing the right wonders.