Request regarding scandal of 800 children found buried in Magdalene home in Galway.

[sunrise089]

We have bigger problems is Krill is some sort of church.

Also, you're a bad Catholic for a Miami dweller. Church

[antisocialmunky]

To call it systemic is true in the grossest possible extent. The RCC acted as a supranational human laundering syndicate across entire continents and practised slavery in at least 1 country.

1 Country?

I wasn't aware that South and Latin America were just 1 Country. But I guess its easy to forget about the Conquistadors converting the natives so they could work them to death in gold mines and agricultural estates to save their souls. I suppose the Church only condoned that to save the souls of the natives but still.

People using religion or any other reason (religion is just the lowest hanging fruit) like nationalism to rationalize away their own horribleness knows no bounds.

I hedged. I did not know that this occurred anywhere else (in the past 100 years) so I said "At least"; I am not surprised to hear that it has occurred elsewhere. That said I really am trying to stay away from the political discussion because it's RB.

I was referring more to the decrees that gave tacit approval to these systems:

We grant you [Kings of Spain and Portugal] by these present documents, with our Apostolic Authority, full and free permission to invade, search out, capture, and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities, and other property [...] and to reduce their persons into perpetual servitude.

...since we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso -- to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the kingdoms, dukedoms, counties, principalities, dominions, possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit -- by having secured the said faculty, the said King Alfonso, or, by his authority, the aforesaid infante, justly and lawfully has acquired and possessed, and doth possess, these islands, lands, harbors, and seas, and they do of right belong and pertain to the said King Alfonso and his successors, nor without special license from King Alfonso and his successors themselves has any other even of the faithful of Christ been entitled hitherto, nor is he by any means now entitled lawfully to meddle therewith.

Granted, this is a complicated issue because Popes come and go and reverse decisions of their predecessors but that doesn't change that at that moment in time, Pope Nicholas V gave a legal endorsement promoting enslaving non-Christians for their own good.

Just because the Jesuits had conscience and expressed abject horror as to what was happening doesn't change the fact that a leader of the Church endorsed such a system and the subsequent Popes weren't able to reverse the decision for many decades to come due to pressure from the colonials and the crowns of Spain and Portugal. It also doesn't change the fact that people who were nominally Catholic used this to line their pockets and do horrible things to other people in the name of God. :\

Its like this situation: Entities endorsed by the Catholic Church power structure did something terrible (The states of Spain and Portugal) and Catholic bystanders are horrified (Jesuits and Humanists of the time), is the Church partially or majorly responsible (or irresponsible by lack of oversight) or not? The situation in Galway and a lot of other stuff the Church gets blamed for that happened in the past are not that different.

[Brian Shanahan]

The petition was handed in to Leinster House today, received by Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald TD with nearly 27,500 signatures attached.

There are currently nearly 30,300 signatures to the petition.

My thanks to all who signed.

[darrelljs]

My thanks to all who signed.

You're welcome . Do let us know how it turns out, assuming mainstream media outlets forget the story.

Darrell

[Brian Shanahan]

My thanks to all who signed.

You're welcome . Do let us know how it turns out, assuming mainstream media outlets forget the story.

Darrell

Don't worry they will.

The latest development is that there will be a commission of inquiry held on the matter.

There are three problems with this, 1) it will take a long time, I'm expecting five to six years, 2) the terms of reference will be drawn up so tightly there'll be nothing said about the wider scandal, and the conlcusion will probably be something like "bad things were done, but they were different times" and 3) evidence unearthed for the commission may be inadmissable in a court of law, if it came that someone was around who was prosecutable.

There's a fourth problem, but this one exists no matter what happens, in that the other power centres in Ireland give too much respect and deferance to the church, despite it being a dying organisation in reality. The rcc is still embedded at all levels of power in this country, so will get a sweetheart deal at the end of the day, like what happened over the child sex abuse scandal (that is still ongoing).

But I'll keep ye all posted if I'm still around (touch wood).

[classical_hero]

This brought up on the flimsiest of evidence and now we now what a shocking like the original story is.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcr...036355.htm

In Ireland the impact was even greater, with several papers likening it to the Holocaust

And the Irish Independent comparing those nuns in Tuam to the butchers of Belsen, Rwanda and Srebrenica:

But ... how reliable was this story?

And why were there no pictures of the bodies?

Had good taste for once prevailed?

Well no. You see no babies had been found.

Nor indeed had the septic tank.

Oh yes, and did we forget to tell you that those 796 children died of natural causes?

With Measles, Influenza, pneumonia, TB and whooping cough topping the list.

So how did this story get so out of hand? Well, if you’re looking for a culprit, the Daily Mail group’s your man.

Starting with the Irish Mail on Sunday which began the hue and cry:

The Mail’s article on 25 May said the remains of these 800 children were most likely:

“Interred in a concrete tank beside the home”

So what was their evidence?

A local historian Catherine Corless had collected death certificates for all who died at the mother and baby home between 1925 and 1961, when it closed.

And after finding almost none of the children in cemetery records she’d concluded the nuns must have disposed of them.

This is journalism at its worst.

[GermanJoey]

I'm sure we'll now get three pages hand-wringing over the evils of the corporate press.

[novice]

The comments in that article bring up some good points.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcr...036355.htm

[ipecac]

Neglect is not murder.

[novice]

Neglect is not murder.

Absolutely. Bad journalism, as I've come to expect. Made worse by the fact that a well-researched, truthful story might have had just as much impact.