Well, for those not following, by my understanding it looks like Seven rerolled start locations and forests/resources, and things got clumpy. Seven rejected the effort/time required to hand-balance the resources for using the PB1 map (or, perhaps, just doesn't want the inevitable player whines for doing it by hand). Torusworld was brought forward as a possible alternate script to use, and Seven offered to roll/balance one of those maps instead, so it looks like a Torusworld is what PB24 will be using. So...I'm out.
Now, it looks like, going by just time spent, it would be far easier to hand-unclump resources than to roll, select, and balance Torusworld...but I'm actually not complaining about that. Because it's surely true that the first would take less time...but the end result would be far less *balanced*, map-wise. And the culture here has become more and more harsh on mapmakers for imbalance. So I get that Seven wouldn't want that. The fact that Krill and Elkad (with less than half a game to his credit) are in the same game? Well, that won't be balanced, but you can blame the RNG for neighbor position.
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On Torusworld. I was asked a few times in the setup thread why I disdain Toruswold, and Krill gave the "bowl of vomit looks" reason, which I've mentioned before, but that's not really it, upon reflection. It's the mass of vomit layout that I dislike.
Toroids are undoubtedly the best balance for multiplayer games of Civ4 above four people, allowing as they do for everyone to border everyone. Torusworld is a network of seas and land that balance access fairly for everyone (assuming careful mapmaker hand)...but I kind of hate it. PB1 itself is a Full of Resources, Lakes map, which is superficially a rather similar script. But it was a cylindrical wrap. This had several effects:
-Bands of tundra/temperate/tropical/temperate/tundra.
-Definite axis to advance along/feel safe around.
-Thicker land forms.
All of this combines to give a map with a definite sense of place in all its places. Owners of land are owners of a land, territory that has an organic feel to its bounds. Some toroidal maps I've seen give that since too, but Torusworld? No. You just move around the doughnut world gobbling up more and more tiles. Mirrorland does that too, but gives actual balance, if that is what's desired.
I'm aware that this is a minority opinion, and that's clearly fine. Many people playing here love Torusworld and all its nebulous promise of varied balance, hey, that's great. But I play my empire-building games to build an empire, and feeling like I'm in an actual place is kind of intrinsic to that for me. Soooo...that's all for the Commodore thread here, folks. See you in the lurker thread (barring last second rally).
Now, it looks like, going by just time spent, it would be far easier to hand-unclump resources than to roll, select, and balance Torusworld...but I'm actually not complaining about that. Because it's surely true that the first would take less time...but the end result would be far less *balanced*, map-wise. And the culture here has become more and more harsh on mapmakers for imbalance. So I get that Seven wouldn't want that. The fact that Krill and Elkad (with less than half a game to his credit) are in the same game? Well, that won't be balanced, but you can blame the RNG for neighbor position.
---
On Torusworld. I was asked a few times in the setup thread why I disdain Toruswold, and Krill gave the "bowl of vomit looks" reason, which I've mentioned before, but that's not really it, upon reflection. It's the mass of vomit layout that I dislike.
Toroids are undoubtedly the best balance for multiplayer games of Civ4 above four people, allowing as they do for everyone to border everyone. Torusworld is a network of seas and land that balance access fairly for everyone (assuming careful mapmaker hand)...but I kind of hate it. PB1 itself is a Full of Resources, Lakes map, which is superficially a rather similar script. But it was a cylindrical wrap. This had several effects:
-Bands of tundra/temperate/tropical/temperate/tundra.
-Definite axis to advance along/feel safe around.
-Thicker land forms.
All of this combines to give a map with a definite sense of place in all its places. Owners of land are owners of a land, territory that has an organic feel to its bounds. Some toroidal maps I've seen give that since too, but Torusworld? No. You just move around the doughnut world gobbling up more and more tiles. Mirrorland does that too, but gives actual balance, if that is what's desired.
I'm aware that this is a minority opinion, and that's clearly fine. Many people playing here love Torusworld and all its nebulous promise of varied balance, hey, that's great. But I play my empire-building games to build an empire, and feeling like I'm in an actual place is kind of intrinsic to that for me. Soooo...that's all for the Commodore thread here, folks. See you in the lurker thread (barring last second rally).
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
