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Spellweaver

Actually what if we took that side effect idea and made it into a retort?

Spellweaver 2 picks
Get 4 fewer common and uncommons spells, but 4 more rares and very rares.

Basically, for 2 picks you could get 2 books which are 2 rares, 2 very rares, 2 uncommons and 2 commons. (not always but on average), or with this, 2 more rares and very rares than from books, but you lose your early spells.
...this doesn't sound very fun either.


What about "You get 2 more very rare spell for each of your realms that have 2 or more books in it.", specifically intended for 2 or 3 realm wizards? We do have omniscient for early game multicolor, but it doesn't really work for late game (you had to give up a pick on the retort itself, and extra realms to make it useful, assuming you did go for the multi-realm effect and not just for one or two of them).

So with this retort you could get 4 very rares for 2 picks, which no books can possibly give you if you have 2 realms (but 1 realm gets it, as the last 2 books have exactly that amount), or, could even get 6 very rares, if you do 3/3/3 or 4/3/3 books, but that's the most. Maybe to make it even more attractive, throw in a smaller, 6-12% cost reduction for rares and very rares, or an extra rare spell.

(However, this would be a retort that should never appear in treasure (or if it does, should add the extra spells), and the AI should never pick it unless playing 2 realms. )

So summary, it would be

Spellweaver, 2 picks
Your rare spells cost 6% less to cast, your very rare spells cost 12% less to cast. You can research (an additional rare and) two additional very rare spells in every realm you have at least 3 books of.

...so basically it would be as good as the 9th and 10th book pick, without it having to be those books, but the catch is, the effect is limited to the late game. Might be still too weak? We could do 10 and 20% instead maybe? Or is that now on the too powerful side?
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I wouldn't mind if the extra rares and very rare spells is combined with a weak overland bonus effect (+25% overland skill), to make it a bit more manageable in the beginning as opposed to the cost reduction idea.

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So, I go 3 death/3life/3 sorcery conjuror/spellweaver, and for all 3 realms I have the benefits of having 10 books? (except 'only' 9 very rare spells instead of 10) (Basically trying to replicate my current ghoul strategy as much as possible, which is 2 death/2 life/2 sorcery)

Um. I dunno. Seems very strong. But I give up specialist (only affects one of my 3 realms so gaining way more), I give up cult leader (this is probably a big loss), I give up tactician and astrologer (meh, I can live with that), I give up myrran (definitely a loss).

Hmm.. definitely switches it to late game version.. but a better version? Hard to say...

I think I like it actually.
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I like it too, but as these spells cost a lot to research perhaps it should be tied to some research? Or maybe just let the wizards pick the researcher one.
Let it work on commons too, with 3 books you have a low amount of commons as well.
Actually for 2 picks I'd go as far as allowing one spell per rarity.
*Edit: yes, I'd also let it work on early spells, so it has a small effect early on too. It shouldn't enable picking spells so it doesn't become a big combo choosing balance issue.

+1 researchable spell of every rarity in each realm you have books in; don't pick this if you're a mono.
-> probably AIs should try to couple this with sage
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Just to guide players, can you put a requirement of the retort of at least 3 picks of 2 realms?

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(August 12th, 2018, 05:59)zitro1987 Wrote: Just to guide players, can you put a requirement of the retort of at least 3 picks of 2 realms?

Sure, we can do that.
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It does appear a bit weak unless utilizing 3 realms. We could add an additional bonus if 4 or even 5 books of same realm is chosen, allowing dual wizards to benefit enough to be a decent choice.

Spellweaver, 2 picks
*Your rare spells cost 6% less to cast [and research], your very rare spells cost 12% less to cast [and research].
*You can research (an additional rare and) two additional very rare spells in every realm you have at least 3 books of.
*You can research an additional rare and very rare if 5 books chosen of same realm.

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Ok, there is one thing I am worried about.
The price of picking more retorts is that you get fewer endgame spells. This does the opposite, which is ok because you don't get an early game benefit like on other retorts, but this also adds a stronger late benefit. So it can cancel out the late disadvantage of picking other retorts.
In other words, instead of 5+5+2 retorts, you can pick 3+3+Spellweaver+4 retorts and have the same amount of very rares, at a discount to casting cost. Basically, the retort is as good as the 9th and 10th books, but works even if it's not the 9th or 10th pick but the 7th or 8th one. So it allows 2 more retorts at no cost to late game potential, and 2 more retorts contribute far more for your early game than the missing common and uncommon spells.

So it breaks the book system design, unless it also requires at least 8 books total. Even then I have doubts. The advantage of playing multiple realms is still available for you (more spells received from external sources, trading and looting banished wizards) but now with the advantage of playing mono at the same time (more very rares and lower casting costs).
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I see your point, though it does not break your book design if it requires a minimum of 8 or 9 books. Then it's a matter of advanced spells vs retorts.

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Yes but it's active only later, so basically it's an investment. I think that balances it out.
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