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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
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[SPOILERS - El Grillo & Charriu PB51] One step at a time
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This worked out a lot better than expected, I have to say. We get a strong pairing, GKC should be denied EXP, and with luck someone will take Shaka, denying that to superdeath. Let’s see if any of our opponents have any further surprises for us.
Now the pressure is on not to bungle the opening 
I've been writing down some of my thoughts on my opponents' picks, which I now present in its full wall-of-text glory.
Executive summary: 1. I want to neighbor GKC, Lazteuq, Amicalola, or any of the other FIN players. 2. I would prefer not to neighbor superdeath or Vanrober. 3. The loss conditions I want to avoid are: a. superdeath (Shaka/Rome) deciding to send his Praetorians my way b. Plemo (Ragnar/Netherlands) or Lazteuq (Pericles/France) making an uncontested Astronomy play c. Someone eating a weak neighbor at low cost and snowballing the land advantage 4. The opening plan I have in mind is to actively scout our two neighbors and estimate who would be more vulnerable to early War Chariot pressure. I'd like to get a fair border with the other neighbor (and a conservative one against superdeath or Vanrober) and chop/whip some WCs against our target. If we can cut Copper, then the goal is to do so and pillage/choke for as long as possible, or even eliminate if things go better than expected. Otherwise, the goal is to apply some pressure, delay Settlers, and try to expand aggressively in their direction. Leader/civ picks and analysis: Superdeath: Shaka of Rome (AGG/EXP of Praetorian/Forum with Mining/Wheel) I've read some of superdeath's threads so there's little doubt in my mind that the idea here is to make a beeline for Iron and smash the weakest available neighbor, with AGG Praetorians serving double duty both as unstoppable conquerors and later as cheap defenders for what will likely be a large but economically weak Classical/Medieval empire. Threat level if neighboring: Very high  Threat level if far away: Moderate  My thoughts if neighboring: Scouting and tech/power tracking via C&D will be key to estimate when Praetorians will come online, with defogging core cities to spot Barracks being built as a secondary goal. We will also have to decide very early on if the plan is to play aggressively with an earlier War Chariot timing window, or to show enough power to persuade superdeath to attack elsewhere while we continue to develop or attack someone else. The last thing I want is to be fighting him during his power spike. From his threads, it seems like maintaining a peaceful demilitarized border will be unlikely, but I could see it happening if we both have more tempting targets at hand and no appetite for further fighting. One thing in particular I noticed is that superdeath really dislikes having opponents who settle cities in his perceived sphere of resources, and on a donut-ish map it may be prudent in the long run to give up a nominally better city site for one on a hill a few tiles back from resources near the midpoint between our capitals. GeneralKilCavalry: Napoleon of India (CHM/ORG of Fast Worker/Mausoleum with Mining/Mysticism) Picking one of Inca/India first with our pick method was always going to be risky, since both want an EXP leader badly and the second player can expect to get Mao, and both Inca/India are strong enough for the first player to expect the other to be taken. I do think GKC did well enough with this pick to secure the only ORG trait on a toroidal water map, which means he'll have options to keep peacefully expanding with cheap lighthouses and courthouses in the Medieval era while the rest of us wait for more pop/cottage maturation/techs to do so. Threat level if neighboring: Low  Threat level if far away: High  My thoughts if neighboring: GKC is one of the players I'd be tempted to pressure with a War Chariot rush. This combo gets scarier and scarier the longer the game goes on, with promoted CHM units and Fast Workers becoming a real headache tactically, and the almost inevitable espionage lead from having more cities with courthouses earlier is an advantage that's valuable, if hard to quantify. I won't speculate on how effective a rush might be without seeing the lay of the land and tech costs, but we shouldn't be afraid to evaluate it as an option. Giraflorens: Ramesses II of Persia (IND/SPI of Immortal/Apothecary with Agriculture/Hunting) Giraflorens managed to get a monopoly on both IND and SPI, so a lot depends on if and when he decides to try leveraging those traits with non-growth non-military techs and builds for religion, civics, and wonders. Immortals do handle early aggression quite well with their ability to fortify, so if he manages to claim a reasonable amount of land and then go quick Forge into GE for Pyramids, we could be scrambling to catch up. Alternatively, he could attempt to found early religion and go for Stonehenge or Oracle, and be left vulnerable to early aggression. Threat level if neighboring: Moderate Threat level if far away: Moderate My thoughts if neighboring: As I mentioned during picks, IND/SPI has a lot of potential, especially as the game goes longer and proactive civic swapping can yield more benefits, but it remains to be seen how Giraflorens plays the combo and the start. I'd like to defog core cities so we can make an educated guess about an early wonder in time to respond with aggressive pressure and expansion in his direction, but would not otherwise be inclined. Vanrober: Kublai Khan of Zulu (AGG/CRE of Impi/Ikhanda with Agriculture/Hunting) This pairing gets to settle up on its neighbors with impunity with CRE cities defended by units that win all the early combat matchups. I almost wish he would start next to superdeath to be a thorn in his side and a tough target with Shock Axes. For a longer game, this pairing is leaning heavily on AGG Ikhandas plus Courthouses for -70% maintenance, which means if he's able to grab a lot of land or pick up cities in war, he could run high research with cheap Libraries to stay competitive economically. Threat level if neighboring: High Threat level if far away: Moderate My thoughts if neighboring: Unfortunately this is a combo we can't play proactively against as Egypt, and we're priced into having some production into an Axe in every border city for an emergency whip against Impi from the fog. Against this combo specifically I'd like to save up barbarian exp on a War Chariot for Sentry, since keeping a sentry net alive against Impi is both tougher and more important. I rate this as less frightening than AGG Rome because we can at least defend our cities and his gameplan isn't as dependent on an early conquest, but this is another matchup where we likely have to cede some ground, and hope to have a softer target available. Lazteuq: Pericles of France (CRE/PHI of Musketeer/Salon with Agriculture/Wheel) The pairing has the tools to play a strong opening with CRE and good techs, but the thing I'm wary of is a follow-up Astronomy beeline using 2 or 3 Great Scientists (skip CoL and Civil Service, tech Calendar and Machinery, then tech/bulb Optics and bulb Astronomy twice). If there's anything I've learned reading threads here, it is how terrifying effective naval superiority is. This being a watery toroid, no one is safe from Galleon raids, and if there are ocean-only islands in the mix it's an even more powerful option. Threat level if neighboring: Low Threat level if far away: High My thoughts if neighboring: This is another possible target for our first war, especially if we can scout out an early Library with implied Scientists being hired. Capturing an Academy would be a very nice reward, and I am honestly scared of Galleons on a map where I expect to be settling lots of coastal cities. Amicalola: Mao Zedong of Inca (EXP/PRO of Quechua/Terrace with Agriculture/Mysticism) I expect this pair to grab land aggressively, chop in Terraces, whip out Workers to grow and develop quickly, and then lean on PRO to dissuade any would-be attackers until reaching Construction and the safety of Catapults. It's a strong plan and one that I would have been happy to play. Threat level if neighboring: Low Threat level if far away: High My thoughts if neighboring: The good news is that this combo can't be quite as assertive in the face of War Chariots, so we can likely get a favorable border, though actually fighting through cheap Walls and PRO Archers would be less than ideal. I'd hope that we can maintain a stable border and outscale them eventually. Mjmd: Elizabeth of Korea (FIN/PHI of Hwacha/Seowon with Mining/Mysticism) This is a mid/late-game research powerhouse, scaling even harder with the Seowon. If this player makes it through the early game unscathed and is able to leverage its traits, then attack someone with a tech advantage and take few casualties, it'll be an uphill struggle for us from there. I do think Mjmd would've preferred a slightly stronger early civ, but Mali and Rome were both taken. Threat level if neighboring: Very low  Threat level if far away: Very high My thoughts if neighboring: Mjmd would be my preferred neighbor, and it's not close. Having weak starting techs no growth trait, and no good early defender means that we should try to scout out his Copper and deny it if at all possible, pillage tiles where we can, and then expand into his land. Eliminating him outright may or may not be in the cards, but I strongly believe that we'd be amiss to just let him develop in peace. Ramkhamhaeng: Wang Kon of Mali (FIN/PRO of Skirmisher/Mint with Mining/Wheel) I think this ended up being the weakest FIN pairing due to RMK valuing Mali a bit higher than I would've in his position. That said, it's still FIN which means he's a contender in a longer game. This combo does manage to be very prickly in the early game, so RMK will almost be guaranteed to hold what he claims against his neighbors. I wonder if he'd be inclined to plant aggressively to get the border he wants, then back-fill to end up with sufficient land. Threat level if neighboring: Low Threat level if far away: High My thoughts if neighboring: We could use a couple War Chariots both to scout his settling pattern and to put on some pressure so that we can claim an advantageous border between us, then try to grow taller while looking to attack another player. If push comes to shove early on we can fight Skirmishers in the open but not in cities or on rough terrain, so it's even more important to have our War Chariots near his borders. I also feel pretty confident about fighting later with similar amounts of land, as CHM supports more whipping and more highly promoted units, so this would be a good neighbor from my perspective. Plemo: Ragnar of Netherlands (AGG/FIN of East Indiaman/Dike with Agriculture/Fishing) Plemo clearly has put weight on the watery toroid nature on the map, and I also expect an emphasis on early Astronomy, though his bulbs won't be as accessible as Pericles'. Everything that I said earlier about naval superiority being terrifying goes double here, since massing Caravels isn't even an option against East Indiamen. If the game goes late enough, Dikes can be quite worthwhile, though it does take a long time to get to them and even longer for them to pay back. Threat level if neighboring: Low Threat level if far away: Very high My thoughts if neighboring: This is another player who I strongly believe we should aim to pressure early if we have the opportunity to cut his Copper. Even if we can't eliminate him, it will be important to set him back, claim a favorable border, and leave a weakened player that can later be opportunistically partitioned with his other neighbor.
Great analysis. Can't add much except that in case we border Superdeath and decide to rush him, we should look up PB41, in which SD was rushed and eliminated by Commodore pretty early.
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
And we're off!
Civ password:  Well, this is a very strong signal to settle in place. I figured as there are no tempting options within one Settler move worth considering, it'd make more sense to settle first before moving the Scout. Settling revealed this:  I'm not very experienced with the flying camera, but I was able to gain some insights from it, starting with which directions the map edges are in:   I can't confidently predict the map dimensions, but it does look like the map is rectangular and not square like an actual Donut script-generated map, since we can see ourselves twice in the wrap in one direction and only once in the other. If we take the map description literally and this is a Fractal, that would be 52x84 on Standard size, in which case these numbers would indicate that we're set some distance in from the edges, possibly with outlying islands, which would make sense. I think there's a peak 1SW of the grassland pig, and that the water tile to the east is a lake and not the coast, or at least the tiles north and south of it appear to be flatland. There are more jungles and hills to the northeast and north, and I believe more floodplains than just the visible one to the southwest. I sent the Scout along the river, one because it was the only way I could see to move two tiles and defogging our land is a priority to find our horses ASAP, and also to see if there's any possibility of a second city site on the river for a free trade route and to work capital cottages, though that seems unlikely since it would have a tough time sharing food with the capital. The Scout will continue in a counter-clockwise loop and then head south in search of neighbors. The obvious second city choice right now would be the plains hill 3S of the capital to share the 6f pigs tile, we'll see how that pans out. For sandboxing, tech costs and game setting say this is a Standard-sized toroid on Monarch difficulty, which I think I was able to set up correctly. There's not much to do with it right now until we uncover more of the map, because from what I've seen already it seems reasonable to tech Animal Husbandry first, so our first Worker can hook both food resources and our Scout can uncover more land around our horses if we manage to find them. Unfortunately our first Worker is going to spend a number of turns moving through forests, which while on theme is not exactly ideal for productivity Here we are at the end of turn 0. 
All images except the last are broken for me.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
I've read that the links Google Photos normally produces are temporary and liable to stop working after a day or two, but that there are workarounds to get a permanent link. Dang it technology, of course it couldn't be that simple :D
EDIT: For future reference, the workaround is to publish the album (you can create a shareable link but not actually share it with anyone else), then access it using incognito mode (or after logging out of the album host account). A little bit less convenient to be sure, but not too onerous. Hopefully everything is fixed now, thanks for letting me know and please let me know if they ever break again.
Well good that we have agriculture. I counted 14 forests in the BFC, which is pretty high.
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
Yeah, there’s an unintentionally sad irony that I’ll be naming cities after these beautiful natural spaces and then unashamedly chopping down all of their trees.
 Not meant to be political commentary, I promise! I expect that most of these hammers will be going into Workers and Settlers, but maybe they’ll be a half dozen War Chariots instead. |
