Other stuff

[Gavagai]

Just to point out he did try to overthrow US democracy. If you want to see that whole argument you can go the American thread.

I already spoke about his sense of honor. With respect to kindness.
1) One could take a look at the way Trump treats his wife in public. For an observant person there is a lot of material here.
2) Trump's family (narrowly understood) is very loyal to him and I think he has good relationship with his exes. Unless I am forgetting something none of them spoke against him when they had a lot to gain from doing so. Once again, this is an important symptom.
3) Trump is a terrible liar. You can easily see when he lies but you can also easily see when he is genuine. Whenever he spoke about people who suffered under his watch I felt genuine pain in his voice. I do not remember such vibe from any other politician.
Overthrowing of US democracy - media-fabricated non-event, boring to discuss.

[Gavagai]

So this contradicts the Mueller report.

I don't see a contradiction.

[Gavagai]

I distinguish between "showing resolve" and randomly "speaking up" against your political rival. Some political statements are meaningful, some - are not. In particular, concrete threats and promises are meaningful, calling your opponent colorful epithets - is not.

So saying Crimea and Donbas are ok to be part of Russia is good? Sounds like appeasement at worst.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cl...mit-2018-6 - do you refer to this?

[darrelljs]

Given Clinton unexpectedly lost to Trump, I think it’s hard to spin this as a “non-event that only had great significance inside American media bubble.”

Darrell

[Mjmd]

Just to point out he did try to overthrow US democracy. If you want to see that whole argument you can go the American thread.

I already spoke about his sense of honor. With respect to kindness.
1) One could take a look at the way Trump treats his wife in public. For an observant person there is a lot of material here.
2) Trump's family (narrowly understood) is very loyal to him and I think he has good relationship with his exes. Unless I am forgetting something none of them spoke against him when they had a lot to gain from doing so. Once again, this is an important symptom.
3) Trump is a terrible liar. You can easily see when he lies but you can also easily see when he is genuine. Whenever he spoke about people who suffered under his watch I felt genuine pain in his voice. I do not remember such vibe from any other politician.
Overthrowing of US democracy - media-fabricated non-event, boring to discuss.

Please redirect the last to the American thread. I've sworn NEVER to let that lie pass unchallenged. 

I don't want to go ad hominin but even assuming I agree with 1 & 2 ( I don't) that hardly proves he would intervene in Ukraine. #3 he lies a lot even for a politician; not exactly a high mark for morality.

[Gavagai]

Given Clinton unexpectedly lost to Trump, I think it’s hard to spin this as a “non-event that only had great significance inside American media bubble.”

Darrell

I said that the interference attempt was very ineffective and small-scale, as far as I know, nothing in Muller's report contradicts it.

[Mjmd]

I distinguish between "showing resolve" and randomly "speaking up" against your political rival. Some political statements are meaningful, some - are not. In particular, concrete threats and promises are meaningful, calling your opponent colorful epithets - is not.

So saying Crimea and Donbas are ok to be part of Russia is good? Sounds like appeasement at worst.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cl...mit-2018-6 - do you refer to this?

That. 2014 he praised Putins invasion. 2016 said Crimea would rather be with Russia and that they didn't seize it at all. Its not like it was a one time thing. Again you have the argument Biden should have done more, but Trump was actively saying what Russia did was ok, but yet you think Trump would have done more? The argument doesn't follow.

[Mjmd]

Given Clinton unexpectedly lost to Trump, I think it’s hard to spin this as a “non-event that only had great significance inside American media bubble.”

Darrell

I said that the interference attempt was very ineffective and small-scale, as far as I know, nothing in Muller's report contradicts it.

Again, I don't think it shifted presidential eleciton. It does however again show that Russia was putting its weight behind Trump, not a democrat candidate. Mens Rae.

[Gavagai]

Please redirect the last to the American thread. I've sworn NEVER to let that lie pass unchallenged. 

I don't want to go ad hominin but even assuming I agree with 1 & 2 ( I don't) that hardly proves he would intervene in Ukraine. #3 he lies a lot even for a politician; not exactly a high mark for morality.

The purpose of that particular response was to provide evidence for Trump's kindness. It has nothing to do with Ukraine and little to do with his overall morality. I understand that the "overthrow democracy" story means a great deal to you but for me it is of no interest.

[Mjmd]

Please redirect the last to the American thread. I've sworn NEVER to let that lie pass unchallenged. 

I don't want to go ad hominin but even assuming I agree with 1 & 2 ( I don't) that hardly proves he would intervene in Ukraine. #3 he lies a lot even for a politician; not exactly a high mark for morality.

The purpose of that particular response was to provide evidence for Trump's kindness. It has nothing to do with Ukraine and little to do with his overall morality. I understand that the "overthrow democracy" story means a great deal to you but for me it is of no interest.

So you are willing to cherry pick only arguments that show Trumps good side and ignore everything else? I mean you can make the devil look good that way.