The Haunted Forest: Mardoc puts the Sidar to the test.

[Mardoc]

Key diplomatic question: Are we bound by a confidentiality agreement about Seroda's attempts to recruit us vs Bob?

If so, then we say nothing, keeping agreements is more important than winning the game.

If not, then warn Bob about what is about to occur. He's been around the block enough times to have probably figured out that he is Serdoa's next target, but in case he hasn't....he needs to be building units now in order to defend.

Went back through - no confidentiality agreement. I guess Serdoa was relying on my self-interest, in that I need Bob taken down a peg too. Which would have worked, if I were allied, or if Serdoa weren't quite so scary.

I think it's clear that Serdoa won't deal, so we need to try to ensure the best outcome, which is stalemate.

[COLOR="Silver"]Bob,

This is probably obvious to you, but just in case it's not - Serdoa's planning to invade you ASAP. He's approached me for an alliance, but wasn't willing to offer anything beyond 'taking down the leader' - and frankly, I'm no longer convinced that's you ;-P. On the other hand, I still have an NAP with Serdoa, so I can't come in on your side either anytime soon enough to matter.

But I recommend you get your units healed up and fortified in your cities, do some emergency drafting, etc. I'd expect his 20+ horses inside your borders within 10 turns, if I were you - and for all of them to be 6-move Raider monsters, so there's a decent chance he can go from out of sight to attacking your cities in a single turn. He has enough 85% withdrawers that he was able to kill both my original archers without taking casualties, so you'll need numbers in addition to your heroes.

You saw how fast Selrahc folded - and he had about the same Power as you do now.

Best of luck!
- Mardoc[/COLOR]

Or just use unitclasses that don't have promo-counters.

Adept and Recon (no promo counters)

Disciple (only has Scourge at Way of the Wicked iirc)

Well...if we have some melee/mounted/etc, then Serdoa will be tempted to spend promos on the counters. If we don't, then he'll go straight Combat. So faking him out is worth -20% strength to him, really.

Plus, only Recon can have a base strength high enough to matter. The only exception is maybe a Mage with Stoneskin, but there's essentially no chance of getting there. Still, we get enough other bonuses to Recon, and have already gone that route substantially, I'm intending to finish the Recon tree if we live long enough.

I wonder what the beaker difference is between Animal Handling and Iron Working? (including prereqs)

The bigger problem is that we've no guarantee of having Iron. Even if we do have it, there's a good chance it's in Asteroids' BFC, not ours. And with settlers banned, we can't go out and get it.

I'll try to do the analysis tonightish, but on first thought it's not going to be worth trying for Iron Working without Asteroids and the Mines.

[Tasunke]

well, in my mind its 120 hammers for 6 strength (champs) vs 160 hammers for 7 strength (rangers)

although, if you could 1 turn rangers I guess its a non-issue.

[Mardoc]

well, in my mind its 120 hammers for 6 strength (champs) vs 160 hammers for 7 strength (rangers)

Yes - except if I have an opportunity to counterattack. Then it's 120 (normal) hammers for 1-2 move units, vs 160 hammers for 4-5 movers. That's especially important in the in-between stage where I can't leave my city, but want to exert some control over the area.

And realistically, it's probably 7 strength either way, since we have copper and I don't see Serdoa getting to Rust. So it's worth considering if it'll be possible.

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Thanks for the warning Mardoc, I appreciate it

I have indeed been preparing for Serdoa to attack at any time- it seems clear that he needs to make his move as soon as possible, as the longer he delays, the more time I have to prepare my defenses until his horsemen are no longer a factor. Once that happens I'll be able to launch my own assault, and I seriously doubt that he wants to find himself playing defense with a spread-out Hippus empire.

How long does your NAP with him last? I'm going to be playing turtle until either the storm passes or I'm dead, but assuming I do survive it's going to be my turn to take the fight to him. When that happens, I think it would be an opportune time for you to attempt to retake your former capital, in addition to anything else he has nearby.

-Bob[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Silver"]Bob,

I can't see any purpose to keeping it secret - EOT 135. Probably long enough that I can't affect your war, but perhaps I'll be wrong about that. I've been mostly focused on surviving T136, not offense ;-). But if your war is going well enough for there to be opportunities, I'll certainly plan on taking advantage of them. And I will be building military, regardless, for the next 30 turns.

Ah...as an aside, do you have any objection if I were to go barb-hunting on your borders? I imagine you'll shortly have every opportunity for XP gain without needing to hunt barbs yourself.

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

[Mardoc]

Go for it, the barbs are a distraction which I don't really need right now. I'd prefer if you could leave any lairs really close to me untouched though- well, just don't explore them at least.

I'm surprised any lairs really close to you still exist, but I do seem to recall you consider that a casus belli. I won't open any on your borders so long as we're at peace.

So...now we have license to hunt barbs anywhere and everywhere on the map. The challenge is getting the forces built who can do so . But that definitely seems like a priority to me - we can train DS's all over the world, and Wanables close to home, and grow our military might as fast as possible. I think best bet is to aim to stay on people's borders, so we don't prevent spawns.

Also, we have an excuse to scout Bob's borders and military and generally keep an eye on the war

[Selrahc]

I wonder what the beaker difference is between Animal Handling and Iron Working? (including prereqs)

Animal Handling does not unlock rangers in EitB. They've been pushed back to Feral Bond. Bear that in mind when making plans...

[Thoth]

Or just use unitclasses that don't have promo-counters.

Adept and Recon (no promo counters)

Disciple (only has Scourge at Way of the Wicked iirc)

Recon suck at taking cities, Disciple is nice but we need Arete + a Temple of Kill'em'orph to build Paramanders (which got nerfed a bit on the attack) and defending with Adepts is something we *really* don't want to do.

I remember back in shadow, Beastmasters+Mages+Rangers was the best strategy. I guess the main disadvantage of using Rangers now though .. is that its 160 hammers for 7 strength (as opposed to 120 hammers for 6 base strength in Champions).

I wonder what the beaker difference is between Animal Handling and Iron Working? (including prereqs)

Not sure on the beaker difference, but Rangers fit the Sidar very well with the EitB changes. Rangers get the Sever Soul ability for the extra moves.


It's probably moot, depending on the outcome of the Elf/Hippo war (first time ever I've been cheering for Elfs btw. )

[Thoth]

So...now we have license to hunt barbs anywhere and everywhere on the map. The challenge is getting the forces built who can do so . But that definitely seems like a priority to me - we can train DS's all over the world, and Wanables close to home, and grow our military might as fast as possible. I think best bet is to aim to stay on people's borders, so we don't prevent spawns.

Also, we have an excuse to scout Bob's borders and military and generally keep an eye on the war

Kewl.

Speaking of which...IIRC there is a dungeon or two near our borders. Let's pop them as soon as practical...it's not like we have much to loose from a bad spawn.

[Mardoc]

Animal Handling does not unlock rangers in EitB. They've been pushed back to Feral Bond. Bear that in mind when making plans...

Yep.

Animal Handling (603) {Hawks} -> Feral Bond (1206) {Rangers} -> Animal Mastery (1809) {Beastmasters, Baron Duin}

vs.

Smelting (804) {forges} + Warfare (305) {some civics we never want and a wonder Bob already built} -> Iron Working (1206) {Champs, maybe Iron}

I think it's still coming down on the side of Recon.

So...how far along the path can we realistically get, anyway? First, we're planning to finish Poisons - also I want to deflate all costs by the prereq bonus, so we can directly compare beakers.

Poisons (364/1005 = 641 beakers remaining)

Tech, Raw Cumulative Cost, Pre-req bonus Cum. Cost
Poisons 641 535
Animal Handling 1244 1037
Feral Bond 2450 2042
Animal Mastery 4259 3450

Set against that...well, we do have good news this turn: first, another Waneable was born in the north, and we've a 16 XP archer likely to become Waneable IBT. That's Wanes due in the capital at 3, 4, and 6 turns from now, settleable one turn later. We also won our 85% roll for a GSage:



So...this turn we were at 58 bpt. Discounting any effect of cottage growth and other worker-type help

T103: 58 bpt (58) (hit enter)
T104: 82 bpt (140) (Academy)

T107: 94 bpt (398) (Wane #1)
T108: 106 bpt (504) (Wane#2)
T111: 119 bpt (835) (Wane #3)

T135: (3691 cumulative beakers) (complete stagnation)

This assumes only things that are fairly likely - that the current Waneables all survive back to Pacman and become Sages, and I don't misclick with Bradeline, and he founds our second Academy. And that we don't allow the barbs to pillage anything. And therefore - we could make it to Animal Mastery in time!

Of course, that's making it to Animal Mastery with no time or cash to upgrade anything and actually use the tech .

So...Thoth...how do you feel about adding a couple more Sages and GMerch's to the pot, assuming the barbs and RNG cooperate? We just need a little bit more of an econ to let Serdoa break his Horsies on Beastmasters and the Baron instead of Rangers...the Baron could help us get around that pesky 1 unit/turn limit we're currently suffering from...and we'd then have enough of an econ to relatively quickly add something like the Veil to our arsenal, to turn this into an offensive war.

Edit: Oy, Baron is 335 hammers! Er...maybe not him, anytime soon. Still...Beastmasters!

[Thoth]

So...Thoth...how do you feel about adding a couple more Sages and GMerch's to the pot, assuming the barbs and RNG cooperate? We just need a little bit more of an econ to let Serdoa break his Horsies on Beastmasters and the Baron instead of Rangers...the Baron could help us get around that pesky 1 unit/turn limit we're currently suffering from...and we'd then have enough of an econ to relatively quickly add something like the Veil to our arsenal, to turn this into an offensive war.

That sounds like an insane plan with a very low chance of success.






SIGN ME UP! :hat: :hat:

AFAIK, this will be the first time in RB history that the Baron has actually appeared, let alone had a chance of influencing the game. Baron with Nether Blade has some fun possibilities....especially on a barb heavy map. Careful with those Hawk flights.


As far as the current Wane plan goes, I'm thinking 2 GS's and one GM, our cash flow is a bit anemic at the moment. We'll get at least one more GS when we wane Rathouse Gimpy.


And if you ever Wane a Recon line unit, I will travel into Yankeestan and HURT you. :mad:

[Selrahc]

AFAIK, this will be the first time in RB history that the Baron has actually appeared, let alone had a chance of influencing the game.

He appeared in both PBEM 1(Me) and PBEM 2(Uberfish). Although you're right that he didn't actually do all that much beyond eating barbs in either game.