RMOG: Renaissance Men of Genius

[oledavy]

Turn 247

Really short report because it's late and I'm tired. I have a lot of thoughts I want to get out as we approach our GA. But for now, this picture tells the story of t247:



More to come for t248.

Mackoti Delenda Est

[WarriorKnight]

One thing that's consistently surprised me is how often everyone is whipping things. Rare is the turn that one of the big three doesn't whip 4 cities or so. We on the other hand have hardly been whipping at all, and the same goes for Alhazard (before he was invaded anyway...). plako is whipping more then we are but not as much as the big 3.

I guess that's part of Ren strategy that we completely missed? While we have been able to (somewhat) keep up with expansion while it was relevant, we have barely any infrastructure and no conceivable way to keep up with military. The huge happy cap does encourage a whipping frenzy tbh...

No cheap buildings doesn't help matters either, as ORG came into play a hell of a lot sooner then I thought it would. Definitely ORG > FIN. Vicky probably wasn't that great of a pick, should've just gone Khmer and picked whatever leader was left (Incidentally REM getting Asoka with Khmer was a steal). While I thought Vicky of Dutch was an awesome combo, the leader is kinda 2nd tier and the civ hasn't even come into play yet. Too many mistakes...

In terms of what we can do from here though, should we consider adopting a heavy whip strat ourselves? We certainly have the happiness to spare, the only question is the food (which I'll admit is an issue). Although we are switching out of Slavery during the Golden Age so the point is kinda moot for now...

[oledavy]

Turn 248

Well, we were whipping a lot (all that military and settlers, for example), but we're currently growing everything for a GA. I do concede we should probably be whipping heavier though. CS will forestall that option for us for a few. It actually threatens to put us at risk at a critical time:  



Al isn't even putting a dent in him. We start the GA in two turns, the peace treaty with Mack runs out in 5, and we'll fit nicely into Mackoti's empire. I'm not willing to give up on Oxford and fall into irrelevancy though, so switching out of slavery is a risk we will still take. I do intend to finish the golden age in theocracy though.  

Make no mistake, the game is basically half over now. Every city that is not building a university is in the process of finishing up barracks/starting on catapults, knights, and other military. During our GA, half of our cities will be finishing universities, the other ones will be building military. Afterwards, we will focus on getting our last three settlers out while continuing to cram as much military out as we can. Rifling is the next target for sure, and we're currently working on GP for muskets. 

Hopefully though, Mackoti needs some time to digest Al before turning his army on us. There's also the possibility Scooter or REM attack him. They have a lot to lose if both us and Al go down. 

So, for now, we will continue to walk the razors edge. Half of me really wants to go full military at this moment, but I can't justify to myself how much that would ruin any hope of long-term survival. Mack would just come back with rifles. Plako seems to be basically doing the same thing. His military is not growing at a great rate either. He slots into Mackoti's empire pretty well too. 

Anyway, hope REM or Scooter comes and saves us. If not, well, too bad, so sad. 

We're not getting Jandra btw. 



I think at this point, saying it's a roflstomp would be being kind. 

Remember when Civ was fun and we were excited for this game? 

Mackoti Delenda Est

[WarriorKnight]

Once Al is done mack will turn the hordes onto either plako or ourselves. Unfortunately I think we will probably be easier to take down in terms of player skill (and switching out of Slavery probably won't help either). What is the eta of Gunpowder? If we can cram that by building research we probably should. Probably wouldn't change much in terms of what happens, but appearances is the key.

REM and scooter can't afford to sit around and let mackoti eat someone else, but I struggle to think of what they can actually do without Rifling or Astronony. Oh well, not something we need to concern ourselves with.

How much military does Peaks have? Can we get some Walls/Castle in there? I know that city is scheduled for a University but that's one of the key entry points into our empire and we need to get a military presence in there. We should be able to get the Clam when Iron Man falls so it wouldn't hurt to whip the uni from near scratch just before we switch back into Slavery. Come to think of it, couldn't most of the unis we build be primarily whipped? Switching out of Slavery is a real gamble, we need to do what we can to convince mack to look the other way. Spending GA hammers on military may be the only way we can do so.

[WarriorKnight]

Remember when Civ was fun and we were excited for this game? 

I remember when we thought we had a chance. Ignorance was bliss indeed.

Seriously though, I don't mind playing around in our sandbox. I just wish we weren't at the mercy of everyone else when they eventually decide they want a piece for it for themselves. Right now only mackoti can do that, but REM and scooter should be able to with time as well.

[oledavy]

Once Al is done mack will turn the hordes onto either plako or ourselves. Unfortunately I think we will probably be easier to take down in terms of player skill (and switching out of Slavery probably won't help either). What is the eta of Gunpowder? If we can cram that by building research we probably should. Probably wouldn't change much in terms of what happens, but appearances is the key.

REM and scooter can't afford to sit around and let mackoti eat someone else, but I struggle to think of what they can actually do without Rifling or Astronony. Oh well, not something we need to concern ourselves with.

How much military does Peaks have? Can we get some Walls/Castle in there? I know that city is scheduled for a University but that's one of the key entry points into our empire and we need to get a military presence in there. We should be able to get the Clam when Iron Man falls so it wouldn't hurt to whip the uni from near scratch just before we switch back into Slavery. Come to think of it, couldn't most of the unis we build be primarily whipped? Switching out of Slavery is a real gamble, we need to do what we can to convince mack to look the other way. Spending GA hammers on military may be the only way we can do so.

Peaks only has three units at the moment. I think I want to build a road between there and Plains Hill Sheep so we can shift defenders between the two locations quickly. I agree with you that we should put the university in Peaks on hold and get walls/castle in there. I also want to get a castle into PHS. With a castle in both cities and a respectable amount of longbows/pikes hanging around, we should be safe from Mackoti for a little while at least. His armies are almost all Phracts, and they will have trouble getting past fortified hard points. His best option at that point becomes to land them behind our lines to start forking our cities. 

To this end, he'll be gated by the number of galleons he has, and I am building a few catapults and knights in to counter this style of attack. 

I don't know the ETA on GP at the moment, I'll check that out when I play the turn later.

No though, this is the point in the game where I am very happy we prioritized strong border cities. Al's doom is a result of Mackoti smashing through his first city and then being able to fork him to oblivion. As long as we can keep Mack's hordes off our subcontinent, we should be fine. We do however, need some more roads, defensive infrastructure, and units to make sure they hold. But, we do have time. Not much, but some. 

I think we still need to do a CS/Pacifism golden age though. I do plan to spend about half our golden age hammers on military, but I think if we don't get Oxford out and some GP to start bulbing techs, we will really have no long-term chance at this game.

[oledavy]

Turn 249

Photobucket down, and since Civ6 is calling, this will be a short report. 

Mackoti offered what I think he intends as an NAP: Deer + 30 Gold for Deer + 30 Gold. I thought doing diplomacy through code was frowned upon on RB these days? If it is, it unfortunately puts me in a situation where if it is against the rules, I'm already a participant by having the deal offered to me.  If I don't respond so as not to participate, that in itself has meaning. So....yeah. After confirming he wasn't trying to put something over on us in game, I agreed. There isn't much downside for us given our plan for the coming turns.  

In the west, REM's power has begun to spike.....

Mackoti Delenda Est (in 30 turns or so).

[WarriorKnight]

I think it's fine, here's the relevant section from the rules FWIW:

Diplomacy: "Pitboss-AI-diplo"
You can make any offers for any item the trade window allows you to make, excepting cities.
Any trades offered to another player are treated as valid trade offers.
You may not communicate using: chat box in diplomacy window, unit names, city names, outside communication, in game chat, anything else in this vein.
You may not gift units to or trade cities with another player.

As long as trades are made through resources/gold/maps, we can communicate that way.

As for the deal itself, well it would certainly give us some breathing room. Remember we have little reason to involve ourselves with taking down the leader, being 4th place. He will have plenty of time to consolidate true, but at least we are still alive. We can probably get Dikes up and running by then too. Seems like a no brainer.

I'm thinking about switching tech priorities back to Communism/Steam Power since we now have some breathing room, but let's see what GP we get from the golden age first.

As for REM, we should keep a eye on the west but not too concerned overall. With EI in hand he can't do anything until he gets Astro himself (and even then it's difficult without Frigates), if we can get some EI in the SW water quickly then we have nothing to worry about. Alternatively he can try a mounted strike through the isthmus, but if there's still jungle separating us then it'll be very difficult to do so in a timely manner, not something I'm hugely concerned about at any rate.

So, do we trigger the GA next turn?

[oledavy]

I think it's fine, here's the relevant section from the rules FWIW:

Diplomacy: "Pitboss-AI-diplo"
You can make any offers for any item the trade window allows you to make, excepting cities.
Any trades offered to another player are treated as valid trade offers.
You may not communicate using: chat box in diplomacy window, unit names, city names, outside communication, in game chat, anything else in this vein.
You may not gift units to or trade cities with another player.

As long as trades are made through resources/gold/maps, we can communicate that way.

As for the deal itself, well it would certainly give us some breathing room. Remember we have little reason to involve ourselves with taking down the leader, being 4th place. He will have plenty of time to consolidate true, but at least we are still alive. We can probably get Dikes up and running by then too. Seems like a no brainer.

I'm thinking about switching tech priorities back to Communism/Steam Power since we now have some breathing room, but let's see what GP we get from the golden age first.

As for REM, we should keep a eye on the west but not too concerned overall. With EI in hand he can't do anything until he gets Astro himself (and even then it's difficult without Frigates), if we can get some EI in the SW water quickly then we have nothing to worry about. Alternatively he can try a mounted strike through the isthmus, but if there's still jungle separating us then it'll be very difficult to do so in a timely manner, not something I'm hugely concerned about at any rate.

So, do we trigger the GA next turn?

Eh....I still really think we want Rifling before Communism. Our breathing room with Mackoti aside, there are other sharks in the sea. Plus, Mackoti has been known to break NAPs for rather dubious reasons. I imagine he wants peace with us because we threaten him along a broad front and he needs time to finish off Al and fend off an attack from REM/Plako. That being said, I don't trust REM/Scooter to not come for us even if Mackoti is being earnest.

I want to get some EI's in the west quickly, I think I want to queue two up this turn actually. I'm more worried that he will set up a one-mover stack to come through the isthmus to the west and will just grind us down with drafted units. 

Yep! Our GA begins on t250. I will hold off on playing the turn until tonight so you can confirm the GP plan with me.

[WarriorKnight]

Going to be quick, but here's the plan for the GA:

DR works 3 scientists for 3t. After that it can go back to whatever it was doing. High chance of a GE.

OS works 7 scientists for 5t. The city will starve but not enough to drop a pop. High chance of a GS.

JAO needs to let OS overtake it first, so works 5 scientists for 5t and then 7 for 2. We should get it the turn we need to switch back into Slavery and OR/Theo. Could be either a GS or GE.


Other misc thoughts:

Opening the game greeted me with a 30 for 30 gold trade from mack, and a copper for copper trade with REM. I assume both refer to wanting peace in the immediate future, which is fine by me. We should offer those trade back to confirm our agreement. (I assume mack reoffered the 30 gold trade because we didn't confirm with him?)

I like most National Wonder locations, although I question the value of Wall Street in DR if we're never going to get a shrine. Then again, I don't think we'll be able to build that before the game ends, so whatever.

Kinda surprised we haven't been building infrastructure in the capital, isn't stacking up multipliers in the capital been our gameplan from day 1? I guess at this point it doesn't really matter but everyone else's tech rate has started soaring, even beelining Rifling we will probably only get it at about the same time as everyone else, if not later.