(May 23rd, 2013, 08:54)Azza Wrote: Serdoa is barking up the wrong tree, but I like that he's openly pushing for lynches.
Lewwyn's logic is similar to what I'd normally use, so he's fine there.
Mattimeo is just doing his standard meta stuff, nothing to see there.
Zak posts a list straight up of suspects. Then keeps his vote on the vote leader, Brick, working on the assumption that I'm going to attract lynch attention for my play (a reasonable assumption). I thought I saw something more suspicious in his other posts, but upon re-reading I can't find anything like that. Well that takes the wind out of my sails a bit.
I think I'll vote Rowain for pushing the Brick wagon that's soft as butter.
I'm reading through your case on Azza now, Brick. Looking at the posts that you reference.
You do realize that the above snippets are directed at the people who voted for him, not just a random selection of people? Seems like you may have missed that nuance (twice).
First impression: Lots of text, but not a very strong case.
I'd also be interested in hearing Azza's rebuttal, though.
Ichabod is giving me mixed signals. I don't like the progression of voting for Lewwyn and then me, as he just seems to be deliberately rubbing noses with hard-to-lynch players. And I don't think he made a very compelling case against either of us. In general, I haven't agreed with any of his main pushes so far. On the other hand, I keep agreeing with some of the minor and secondary points that he makes, such as the one against Mattimeo.
Tactically speaking, the best way to resolve this day seems to be lynching either Brick or his main suspect, Azza.
Mattimeo might also be a decent lynch, though.
Brick, what are your fallback lynch preferences? You're really homing in on Azza here.
First off, I think that was a good post by Brick. Not saying he's clearly town now, but I'm not convinced that he's scum either. He did, in the end, deliver a case as asked. And he put a lot of work into it.
Behaviour wise, Brick got angry and went silent in Day 1, almost getting lynched. Then Day he stayed quiet, but finally wrote this long post.
I feel those responses make more sense to me now as frustrated town than scum. If he is scum, then he is willing to put 45 minutes work in writing up a wall-of-text attack post. But why not do that Day 1, then? Brick really didn't put much work into fighting back Day 1, when his life was arguably even more in danger.
I don't know, he could be scum, playing on the grief violin Day 1 and then switching up to counter-offence Day 2 because he knows that emotions wont get him any further. But I'm not convinced.
If Brick IS scum, then his buddy has almost certainly been distancing heavily today, which would raise alarm-bells about SLowcheetah for me. That's one reason for lynching Brick, we get more info from him.
On the other hand, re-reading Azza, I quite like Brick's case against him. Adding some of my own thoughts.
- Azza accuses me of being cautious and voting 'safe', that's enough for him to measure me for the noose. But Azza's Day 1 was spent on Tasunke. You can't get much safer than that. He doesn't make cases against anybody else, jsut counterattack those who voted for him.
- That's not going to fly for 2 days, so Day 2 he opens up EARLY with a dramatic attack against me. A fair few people had voiced concerns about me Day 1, and despite Zak's lovely words about Superwolf Gaz, I consider myself mislynchable.
- Rowain and Serdoa chime in on me too, so Azza has got some momentum going. He holds his vote on me, even as I defend against it. I know I'm innocent, but I can see why some people have been suspicious of me. But I really don't think I've come across as a slam-dunk scum, and I think Azza pushed me harder than there was evidence for.
(May 27th, 2013, 02:19)Azza Wrote: Honestly, right now the only thing that could save you from my vote is Brick's continued avoidance of contributing, or some sort of calamitous error from one of our scum.
This is a big call, showing a lot of certainty. NOthing much happens for an hour, except I respond with my Jkaen thoughts, and then he switches to,
(May 27th, 2013, 03:41)Azza Wrote: I'm not set on voting you, but I'm satisfied with the case against you, and so want to keep the pressure on you.
Why the change in tone? Were you worried that your case wasn't getting anymore momentum? Zak chimed in saying that he thought I was townish, and later on Slow and Serdoa gave me more townish reads too.
Finally, I agree with Brick that this post is scummy:
(May 27th, 2013, 04:36)Azza Wrote: Who else do I suspect? I think I've made it clear I'm not a fan of Brick's play, but I'm willing to give him a chance to explain himself. I don't want to judge slowcheetah vs Ichabod right now, neither have really done anything notably suspicious to me, but I hope for more from them soon.
On the other end of the scale, Mattimeo feels pretty normal, as does Serdoa.
But basically, don't want to get distracted from Gazglum v Brick unless a good alternative pops up/
This breaks down as:
- I think Brick is scummy (as does everyone else, another very safe call, jsut like you accused me of earlier)
- No strong feelings about anyone else
- I don't want to look at other cases.
That last point is exactly why I jumped on Zakalwe in the SUperwolf game, when he announced his desire to settle on Q Day 1. Town should always be looking at other options.
Since Bricks' post, you haven't responded.
Since Brick has responded as you asked, and nobody else has slipped up, I presume your vote stays on me Azza? I'm comfortable putting my vote on you in exchange.
(May 27th, 2013, 20:22)BRickAstley Wrote: Post 43: Same as I've previously posted, small post with tidbits repeated from others.
False. No one had really commented on any of the people I talked about, the focus was on me. I voted for Rowain, who no one else had commented on.
Quote:Post 60: This post particularly irks me. A post like #43 can be justifiable every once in a while, even if it's bad. But then, you defend it, specifically the fact that it was short and didn't offer very much, and try to sell that off as just trying to see what other people say about it? The WW game that I like to play has players trying to hunt through posts and players statements for inconsistencies, and press then upon finding some in order to see how they react. Just offering short tidbits and then saying "Yeah this is totes fine NBD" just seems scummy.
Post 61: I would kinda understand where you're coming from, except I've been doing my best to offer reasoning for what I say, instead of being sall short about it and saying "No I say it's fine deal with it."
Thinking I'm scummy for making short posts is like thinking Mattimeo is scummy for posting about meta, or Serdoa is scummy for pushing extremely hard for a lynch. Short posts is how I play. Just because I don't play identical to you doesn't make me scum.
Quote:Post 115: Yeah, I agree with Lewwyn here, there's a difference. A player who hasn't shown up at all? Might get mod replaced, but if not, hasn't had an opportunity to show their worth. Whereas you HAVE been around but still had a similar relative contribution level, which shows that even though you're around, your presence has helped little. At this point, tasunke was a Schrodinger's cat, unknown if he was dead or alive, but your posting was just dead.
There is a difference in quality of contribution, but the attack was based on quantity, and I rightfully called him out on that.
Quote:Post 120: No, you're either not seeing or pretending not to see the reasoning behind the argument on you. And you're not posting enough to get a read other than just as a scum trying to fly under the radar.
Post 122: Hey I'm not the only one getting somewhat emotional.
I was pissed off Friday night unrelated to the game, and that bled into my posts.
Quote:Post 125: (and novice 126) Yeah, that's all there really is to the starting post, though I don't think people are putting anything into that anymore.
So it's just coincidence that the case against me started to lose momentum after that point?
Quote:Post 158: I don't think this has any influence on scumminess or not, but wouldn't it have been more helpful to just have said that earlier instead of letting tension build?
It's right there in that post. I didn't realise people had missed that part of the joke. I'm not sure if you're even reading my posts when you're making this case?
Post 192: Well, we lost a villager, which is suboptimal for sure. But I get what you're saying.
Quote:Post 220: Like I stated: " I think this is a particularly weak argument on Gazglum here. Is it beneficial for wolves to keep deadweight town in play? Yes, keeps scum from being hunted out. But is tasunke a bad wagon for wolves to pile onto? I would say it isn't at all. Due to his level of inactivity, tasunke is pretty much a policy lynch for being in the game but not actually IN the game any appreciable amount. I would think from a villager standpoint, it would make sense then for getting rid of tasunke, and as the best wolf is a very villager sounding wolf, then voting in a way that lines up with villager interests isn't bad." Talking a little more about the Gazglum cases he's referenced, I don't see anything that deserves that much concern. I don't think there's nothing wrong about being hesitant with votes, we need to vote and have strong cases, but votes aren't to be thrown about willy nilly either.
You're ignoring the context. Gazglum wanted Tasunke killed by non-lynch methods late in day 1. Early in day 2, everyone who's on Tasunke is potential scum.
Quote:Post 261: " I don't think it sounded forced at all (and I appreciated someone actually making an attempt at emotional niceness in one of these games, whodathunk). And sitting on the fence? Though he's been reasonably cautious, Gazglum has been one of the most stalwart contributors this game. It sounds to me like yopu're trying to make mountains out of molehills. "
Post 265: I would really want to see more reasoning on why you are so set on Gazglum, other than saying he;s too noncommittal when he's shown himself to be making an effort that's so far been way much more than yours.
Yes, he's appearing to make an effort, but he's not pushing any cases. He'd been making passing remarks on established cases, going with the flow, and avoiding putting himself out there. It's classic scum play.
Quote:Post 272: Okay here we go, an alternate reason: "It's the (what appeared to be) forced consoling that makes you more suspicious IMO" (Disclaimer: this also fits into the groove of accusing people of faking emotions, which as i've previously discussed isn't a road i'm going down again). I just don't see that sort of an attitude to be something to grow lots of suspicion on though. Also: you're saying "you're reasoning is fine, but the cases are easy, so I'm satisfied voting you". THis seems particularly damning to me; yes, sometimes you have to make the work into finding out a hard case in order to get scum rooted out, but cases that could be considered "easy" are also needed, because those find scum too. Being satisfied on a case just because someone has only made "easy" cases? Nope, not buying it, it feels like a cheap out.
As I said, Gazglum hadn't really made a case. He mostly taken other cases and gone with them. I'm not accusing Gazglum of faking emotion, I have no doubt he was genuine in his condolences, however the way it was worded, and how it fit into his posts seemed very forced to me. If you don't agree, that's your prerogative, but that was how I interpreted it.
Quote:Post 277: again digging your grave.
Quote:But basically, don't want to get distracted from Gazglum v Brick unless a good alternative pops up/
How in the world is this even believed to be good? You keep hunting in this game, not stop. Putting your focus on a particular person is fine if you have a strong conviction is fine, but to say that because you're doing so you don't even want to dig into other cases, unless another one pops up? That's quite the fun lazy way to go about it, so that if you don't go after any one else, you can be "oh no one showed me a better case oh well". I se absolutely nothing wrong with looking at other cases, it's not like you're going to forget about the "main" one you have if you've been thinking about it for any length of time.
I'm not ruling out other possibilities. What I'm doing is keeping my vote on Gazglum because there's a tendency on RB for a case made early in the day to dissipate for no reason other than time has passed. It's ridiculous.
Quote:So to sum it up:
I look at your play Azza, and I see someone who's content to slide on by with weak but possibly passable arguments, and not putting much risk out into your argumenting. Your reasoning you give is quite suboptimal, and many of your opinions seem to just be plain anti-village. You seem like a very slinky wolf, and have stood out to me more than anyone else, so for that reason, we have to chop you. Azza for emphasis.
I have a different playstyle to most here, that doesn't make me scummy. The case you've created is based on misinterpretations, ignoring context, the occasional blatant falsehood and a flat dismissal of my Gazglum case for no reason other than you don't agree with it.
(May 28th, 2013, 01:56)Gazglum Wrote: If he is scum, then he is willing to put 45 minutes work in writing up a wall-of-text attack post. But why not do that Day 1, then? Brick really didn't put much work into fighting back Day 1, when his life was arguably even more in danger.
This is a good point.
Also a good point on the abrupt change from post 265 to 272. I didn't think Azza played a scummy day 1, but his play on day 2 does look a little like he's trying to stay safe by first gunning hard for Gazglum while having Brick as the fallback.
You had me on the verge of voting for Azza here, but I see he's now responding so I'll read that first.
(May 27th, 2013, 01:01)Gazglum Wrote: Alright Azza, I'll go out on a limb.
I BELIEVE ZAK IS VILLAGE SO HELP ME GOD.
It's hard to be as full-throated in support for Serdoa, who is currently trying to dig my grave.
Ichabod isn't hugely suspicious to me. I think that, given the way Realms Beyond Day 1s usually play out, it is likely that one of the quieter posters are a wolf, and so Ichabod is worth investigating. He's been pretty much left alone so far this game, and I don't think his posts are townish enough to warrant that.
I voted Brick all yesterday, that's not fence sitting. As for you, maybe it's your general air of scumminess that is the problem, rather than my 'bravery'. (Said with love, Azza. With love).
What about Jkaen? Why'd you happen to find him suspicious?
Honestly, right now the only thing that could save you from my vote is Brick's continued avoidance of contributing, or some sort of calamitous error from one of our scum.
Post 272:
(May 27th, 2013, 03:41)Azza Wrote: It's the (what appeared to be) forced consoling that makes you more suspicious IMO. I have no quarrel with your reasoning behind your votes, but they mostly seem to have been easy cases, and it has taken further questioning to get you to justify those cases.
I'm not set on voting you, but I'm satisfied with the case against you, and so want to keep the pressure on you.
(May 27th, 2013, 02:19)Azza Wrote: Honestly, right now the only thing that could save you from my vote is Brick's continued avoidance of contributing, or some sort of calamitous error from one of our scum.
This is a big call, showing a lot of certainty. NOthing much happens for an hour, except I respond with my Jkaen thoughts, and then he switches to,
(May 27th, 2013, 03:41)Azza Wrote: I'm not set on voting you, but I'm satisfied with the case against you, and so want to keep the pressure on you.
Why the change in tone? Were you worried that your case wasn't getting anymore momentum? Zak chimed in saying that he thought I was townish, and later on Slow and Serdoa gave me more townish reads too.
That was a clarification on what I meant. The first comment was overly certain about the case, which I'd realised come the time I made the 2nd comment, so I toned it done.
Quote:Finally, I agree with Brick that this post is scummy:
(May 27th, 2013, 04:36)Azza Wrote: Who else do I suspect? I think I've made it clear I'm not a fan of Brick's play, but I'm willing to give him a chance to explain himself. I don't want to judge slowcheetah vs Ichabod right now, neither have really done anything notably suspicious to me, but I hope for more from them soon.
On the other end of the scale, Mattimeo feels pretty normal, as does Serdoa.
But basically, don't want to get distracted from Gazglum v Brick unless a good alternative pops up/
This breaks down as:
- I think Brick is scummy (as does everyone else, another very safe call, jsut like you accused me of earlier)
- No strong feelings about anyone else
- I don't want to look at other cases.
That last point is exactly why I jumped on Zakalwe in the SUperwolf game, when he announced his desire to settle on Q Day 1. Town should always be looking at other options.
I'm backing Mattimeo as town, that's not a safe call at all. I definitely feel justified in staying on you, just look at what's happened to the votes. They've spread all over the place, ridiculously easy to manipulate by the scum now. If we get a positive lynch out of this it'll be a miracle.
With the Zak point, he's a very different player to me. Using the same logic to "catch" me as you would to catch Zak is dooming you to failure.
Quote:Since Bricks' post, you haven't responded.
Didn't have a chance til just before.
Quote:Since Brick has responded as you asked, and nobody else has slipped up, I presume your vote stays on me Azza? I'm comfortable putting my vote on you in exchange.
Azza
I think Brick's case is so hamfisted that he's a more likely scum candidate. Also, it's looking like I'm going to need to vote him to give myself a chance to stay alive.
(May 28th, 2013, 02:15)zakalwe Wrote: "the abrupt change from post 265 to 272"
Can you also explain that, Azza?
265 was much more extreme than I intended. I wanted to look like Gazglum was my choice, because I wanted to keep the pressure on him, but not that I was closed-minded about other cases. Hence the change of tone from 265 to 272.
