Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[oledavy]

Turn 105 - The War Begins



Stirrups in, my 6th tech in 6 turns, but my last in that set. Alright, let's do this...

Except I forgot to grab a screen of the war dec....oh well. I declared war!

I only made three attacks this turn though, the archer in Lafayette attacked the Encampment, and my crossbow and encampment redlined one of the horses Archduke brought up. 

I'm being very careful for the moment because he upgraded at least one crossbow between turns, visible in Buenos Aires. I forgot to check what his treasury was at before I declared war, so it could be anywhere between 2-4. I suspect the lower value though, as I don't think he has Mercenaries. 

At any rate, here was the south after my moves. 



No arrows this turn, as my moves consisted entirely of repositioning and upgrading. Next turn, I move adjacent to his encampment in force. I anticipate being able to take it by t108. After that, I'll collect my forces north of the city, and begin the siege. 

I have been considering whether to bypass the encampment completely, but decided against it, the losses would have been unacceptable, and the best route to attack would have been cut off for me. So, we're taking the slower, more deliberate approach. 

In other news, I got my Niter Mine down this turn and got the Eureka for Rifling. 



In the interim, Archduke moved his horse in the north to be more threatening. 



My knight is in position to intercept and protect the trade route, under the 'industrial' sign. 

Overview at the end: 



A slow first turn, but I expect things will get a lot more exciting soon.

[Mardoc]

At any rate, here was the south after my moves.

Nicely framed! Everything seems pretty clear here. Can't see anything to ask about.

A slow first turn, but I expect things will get a lot more exciting soon.

At times like these, I'm grateful you guys have such a blazing turn pace .

[Zero_1627]

very war-oriented game for You! Go get him!

[oledavy]

A slow first turn, but I expect things will get a lot more exciting soon.

At times like these, I'm grateful you guys have such a blazing turn pace .

Me too! As a worrywort, it prevents me from obsessing over what an opponent might do for too long. 

Anyway...

Turn 106 -  The Battle is Joined



YES. I worked the citizen slot in Schuyler last turn to get an extra culture out, in the hope it would get me to Recorded History a turn sooner. However, the tech pace did not update when I moved my citizen. Thankfully, it was just an interface bug, and I did not have to eat another turn of high unit costs. Additionally, this allowed me to slot Raid in this turn, in time for my horseman south of Mykenes. 

Woden finished Colosseum abroad....

While not unexpected, this is distressing. He also finished the Great Library a couple turns ago. I checked the cultural victory screen on a whim this turn, and he's a lot closer than I would like, thanks to that early tourism. I'm actually very glad I'm Greece at this point, and can counter by raising my own culture fairly effectively with my unique district. I definitely will be finishing Acropolises sooner rather than later this game...

Anyway, let's see what Archduke did!



He chose to launch an all out assault on Fort Lee. I'm pretty sure I can hold it, but I can't say for sure, and he definitely did more damage than I expected. This is what I wanted him to do - an opportunity for me to kill his troops while on the defensive, but I would be lying if I said I knew for sure I will win. 

Also note, in the upper left hand corner, Woden settled a city in the center of the map. Thankfully it does not invalidate my planned front city location. Still, that brings him up to 9. He'll be at 10 when he takes Nan Madol (Curiously, neither him nor Alhambram have taken their city-state opponents yet). That's really concerning, and hits home that I need to absorb cities from Archduke/settle my remaining locations sooner rather than later if I want to keep pace. 

Alhambram upgraded a lot of something. What I can only assume are knights. 



We'll see what he does with them...

Anyway, civic swap time!



I spent awhile debating between Feudal Contract and Raid. You'll note all my builds are infrastructure. While I plan on swapping into Feudal Contract and spamming musketmen after gunpowder, I'm not building more units at present when I maybe should be. I decided it probably wasn't worthwhile to get out more crossbows in the interim. I'm already paying 16 gold per turn in unit costs, even with Conscription, and I think I have enough to take Myrmidon, even if it's a slow grinding siege. Moreover, Raid will allow me to get 50 science from mines and 100 gold from pastures, setting me up for musket upgrades and helping me keep pace with Woden while fighting this war. Even with a production bonus, any units I build will likely only arrive at the front about the time I upgrade muskets, so they would be superfluous. Meanwhile, finishing a bunch of infrastructure in the meantime offers me huge benefits. For example, I've nearly finished a granary in every city, and will shortly be getting out another Campus in Myrmidon. Moves like this will allow me to stay competitive with Woden even while fighting an existential struggle with Archduke. 

I may come to regret this decision if I am just short of units, but even if I don't take Myrmidon in this initial phase of the war, I will just regard it as a temporary setback. Muskets should allow me to just roll over Archduke, double GG'd crossbows or not. Since he doesn't even have knights yet, he's definitely a long way from muskets. 

Anyway, about raid...



Pillaging in this game is just so satisfying, and Raid makes it just that much better. I'm headed for a mine next. 

In the north, I continued moving to intercept Archduke, and finished off the barb spear for a cool 12 culture. 



I realized I miscounted the number of worker charges I would need, as I need to chop the jungle AND harvest the bananas before building a farm there. All this extra food makes my decision to prioritize a water mill a potentially a little wasteful, as I think I will easily get to 10 between all the farms, a jungle chop, and a banana harvest.

I will probably switch back to a Commercial Hub next turn. Idk, the watermill is already half done though...

Oh...another bug for the list.



That archer is definitely not in a district. The only thing I can conclude is that the game is reading the GG as a district  

I also thought the promotion only applied to ranged strength, but it perhaps doesn't and that's intentional. 

Anyway, I could very likely one shot that archer if it wasn't getting that bug, a move I definitely would have made. Reduce incoming fire, and deny him a potentially very strong crossbow upgrade - that unit will fire from 60 strength inside BA with 2 GG's supporting. However, the game is just determined to be buggy as hell...

I suppose I shouldn't complain too much, there's a good chance that like Archduke, I have been benefiting from combat bugs that are invisible to me. Still, this is the second time a bug has saved Archduke from losing a unit. I shot the northern horse instead. 

Here were all my moves: 



I finished off his wounded horse with the encampment and my hoplite. I will likely lose the Hoplite in exchange, if he keeps up his assault anyway. At least he will have to use ranged units to bring it down efficiently, and won't be able to fire upon the encampment as much. I blocked his southern horse from attacking the encampment with my sword. We'll see if he moves onto the CH. His wounded horse from last turn moved back to his capital. 

My western pillaging horse found a roadblocking warrior. I am probably going to get cornered by that warrior and a horse who is pursuing me. However, I think I am generally okay with tying up one of his units. I can just fortify on defensive terrain and chill for a bit. Hopefully I get to the TR though, or can push towards Myrmidon at the same time as my main army. 

In the north, I countered Archduke's commencement of his assault on Fort Lee with my attack on his encampment. I fired a couple bolts, and moved my knights into position. Hopefully I'll have it under my control 2 turns from now. We'll see if he shifts more forces north to defend it. I have one crossbow playing zone defense between both fronts, although I had to pass up a shot on his encampment this turn to do it. If he continues pushing on my southern encampment, the Xbow can defend it, if not, I can easily shift back to attacking his fort. 

Killing units in this war and pillaging quarries will hopefully speed me up to Exploration significantly, I shaved off 1.2 turns this turn alone  

I think Archduke only has a single crossbow for now, but I expect he will upgrade another soon. 

Btw, this positional war in this heavily fortified border region is fantastic, I can't overstate how great Civ6 combat is against human players. It's really satisfying. 

Thermopylae Update: 233

[oledavy]

Yeah, that is it, Singaboy, I am not playing on my own.:D

Take a long hard look at the map and then decide who got the worse draw in this game. Not you.

I don't quite understand why Archduke is so frustrated about the current turn of events, maybe it will become clearer to me when I read his thread. 

He has been the neighborhood bully for quite some time, first initiating the dogpile on me and very nearly succeeding in overruning me, then turning on Singaboy and burning 2 of his cities. He very purposely targeted the second GG by running Strategos, creating a scenario where conflict was inevitable. Did he expect his neighbors could just turn a blind eye if he had two GG's? Even before I began upgrading and began my invasion, he had very obviously positioned his forces to attack Schuyler/Lafayette. Yet apparently my decision to attack him first tilts him?

Still, we've all invested a lot of time, energy, and emotion into this game, so I suppose I can't be too judgy. I've certainly been really frustrated a couple times as well. For what it's worth, regardless how this ends, Archduke has been a stellar opponent who has consistently pushed me to my limit. His performance between PBEM1 and PBEM2 is like night and day. I will very gladly play another game with him any time, and he has proven himself as a capable and worthy adversary.

[oledavy]

Turn 107 - The Bloodbath

Opened the turn to an unpleasant surprise



Archduke managed to kill my knight. Those crossbows pack quite a wallop. My Hoplite died, but that was expected.

I spent awhile debating between an all in turn, or pulling back and attacking in a more conservative fashion. 

Screw it, I'm all in at this point. Even if I lose this army, I have muskets starting in 7 turns in every city. The more of his units I kill, the faster I get to Exploration. It's now or never. 



I killed two of his horsemen. Total losses to date:

Archduke: 3 Horsemen
OleDavey: 1 Knight, 1 Hoplite

It's worth noting he pulled one of the horsemen that attacked last turn out of the fog, one more than I expected he had. My C&D is not as good as I hoped it was.

Anyway, this was a good turn to go all out on the encampment because I got good damage rolls without a unit in it. The walls are gone, and I'm now eating into the garrison itself. He has a lot of options. He can kill my knight, or he can press hard on my encampment. I also moved my horsemen into position to threaten his trade route to give him something else to consider. The bottomline is he only has so many crossbow bolts, and he can't kill everything.  

It's imperative that I retain control of my encampment. It gives me the previously discussed winning advantage against the city-center. Once I get his encampment down, the northern attack route is open, and I'll have more room to maneuver. I expect I'm going to pull back some wounded units next turn. What he won't see is my third knight coming in. It can cross the river next turn, then attack the encampment on t109 according to the mouseover. I'll continue pelting the encampment with the crossbow next turn, then go all in on it the turn after that. I'm really hoping he has a crossbow in it when I do attack, I really need at least one of those terrors dead. 

Making a kill with my knight landed this for me: 



Without the knight up north, I'm queuing up a Hoplite in Georgetown to fend off his horseman in coordination with my archer. I actually may spend some time spamming out hoplites in the coming turns, as I could use them as cheap retainer garrisons that don't cost upkeep. Amenities are going to be an issue sooner rather than later, Hong Kong continues to give me problems...



Oh well, we'll manage one way or another. 

In the south, I'm poised to pillage a mine next turn. He has a chariot following me, but I don't really care. I'm just going to run around and pillage as much as I can. 



Things at the end of the turn: 



I'm feeling significantly less confident than I was at the end of last turn, but losses like this were inevitable. I just need to get out of the mindset that taking territory from a human player, especially one in an entrenched position, is ever going to be anything less than a bloodbath.

[Molach]

Enjoying the updates, and reporting style.

I am unable to provide much tactical advice - have only played against braindead AI, but I can appreciate that the tactical game against humans is both a lot more fun, and a lot more challenging than what I've tried.

If this were a Civ IV game, I would say that you are building a lot of economical/development stuff in your cities while in a massive war, but I guess this could be a result of movement/units just getting in each other way if you have too many on the field. I'd guess Archduke is building units, units and more units, as his units will get double-boost from the GGs, meaning quantity has the edge over quality for him.

Anyway, Semper Fi!

[oledavy]

Really depressing couple of turns. Archduke took my encampment on t108, something I had done the math on and estimated he could not do. I'm not sure what I overlooked. If I had had one more turn to shred another horse, I think it would have been impossible for him to do, so kudos on him for taking possibly the last turn to do it. 

So, my plan was to take advantage of my knight edge with a quick bite and hold on Myrmidon utilizing my existing forces, as a prelude to a general attack with muskets in ~15 turns. It has failed at this point, miserably. I didn't get my army destroyed, not entirely, so I am not in extreme danger of a counter-attack. My lack of new units coming off production queues would be a cause for concern if he had the strength to go on the offensive right now, but I don't believe he does. I will have a musketman upgraded in a few turns to enhance my city-strength, and muskets coming off the line everywhere ~10 turns after that, so I should be okay. But, taking Buenoes Aires is out of the question for the moment. 

What's worse, I believe he will have knights by the time I arrive with a significant force of musketmen. Strength 58, 6-move knights...

And Hong Kong is sitting on 4 unhappiness at the moment, which puts it well within the spawn barb range...

And Woden just completed his conquest of Nan Madol, and is now leading me 20%-30% in both science and culture. 

I just frankly don't know what to do at the moment. This is extremely frustrating because it feels like I can't break out of my corner. Moreover, great generals are just infuriating to fight against. I thought a 48 strength unit would be sufficient to overcome the GG bonus, and that has proven to be not the case at all. My tech edge is not enough to produce a victory when fighting against two GG's on the defense. 

So, where do we go from here? I can't let Archduke continue unmolested, he's a massive threat with those two Great Generals. But I can't make progress against him, at least not for ~15-20 turns while waiting on sufficient numbers of muskets, during which time I lose productivity to unhappiness and build military while Woden builds infrastructure. There's also the added danger that Archduke assembles a force in that time (or hell, perhaps has it already) that can take my cities.

This felt like such a good plan, a quick dagger to gut Archduke while waiting on my muskets. Instead, I've suffered heavier casualties, and am less secure than I was 5 turns ago. All I may have done was delay the t105 invasion he was planning, and gotten about a third of my army killed in the interim. 

Anyway, I am going to take a few days break from reporting. We're likely entering a cold war style stage anyway, so there won't be a lot to say. I can't really justify spending an 1-1.5 hours a day playing and writing about a game that is more frustrating for me at present than it is enjoyable. 

I am going to try not to think about this game so much for a few days, and hopefully backing out and re-approaching it will grant me clarity to see what the best path forward is. If people have questions, I will still be checking my email for notifications and reply to those.  

See you all later this week!

[Ituralde]

I will be missing your posts for sure, but can understand that you need some distance from the game. You have given us excellent reading material on war at or near tech parity against a human opponent. There was bound to be a steep learning curve involved, probably even a frustrating one.

I look forward to your future posts, just hang in there an do your best. I for one am a very entertained lurker!

[Esteon]

I'll second Ituralde.
I'm not sure if you can draw strength from this, but you've taught us a lot already (isn't that the point of those games, at least partially?).
Even if it is frustrating at times (to several players - it seems), this game is greatly entertaining and enlightening for us lurkers.