[pb72 spoilers]: the esteemed gentleman's literature and book club

[greenline]

Just a random note that I'm super impressed with y'alls turn pace for this late in the game.

Commenting on this: I think the very fast turnpace owes itself to a couple of factors beyond just player availability:

The land and city layout is rather wide. There has rarely been a density of food resources to promote heavy overlapping micro of cities instead of just letting them grow onto good tiles on autopilot and whipping occasionally.

The current war is just a sitzkrieg where no sides do anything. Even during the hectic turns it was mostly just each party advancing on a single axis and then deciding if it was a good idea to attack or not. No complex forking maneuvers or naval shenanigans.

Low player count.

You could also attribute those factors as being due to newbishness. I do feel kind of adrift again, not sure if any of my plans for the future are worthwhile. But so long as my demos are competitive it doesn't feel like I'm messing things up...

[Qgqqqqq]

What are your thoughts on Byzantium balance, at this point?

[greenline]

What are your thoughts on Byzantium balance, at this point?

Going by this game? They seem in a good spot overall. Maybe tending a little bit on the weaker end, but definitely playable.

By far the biggest downside is still the starting techs. I thought going in that the CtH changes to the tech cost would ameliorate most of this, but I was wrong. Because I went BW first I was basically required to settle Dune as a second city, and while it has been a productive spot long term I would have much preferred to have the Diamond Age spot as my second city. I was also much delayed on getting granaries online compared to what I imagined might be possible. So if you pick Byz you absolutely have to take the slow start into account. The map might compensate you by having a bunch of agri resources, but a lot of the time it will not.

Once you get to phracts, though, they are a significant step up over knights. Not unbeatable, but still useful. Just the threat of them on the border with Bing was enough to have him blow a bunch of his GA pop on amassing a defensive army and rushing to engineering. Castles stacked with WEs and LBs and pikes will stop a phract charge, but it is a more significant investment versus just holding off a knight stack. 

My war with Xist would have gone a lot worse if I had invaded with knights. The odds on the praets in those hill cities would have gone from 32% to probably 11% each. His big catapult stack would absolutely have been able to wipe my own stack. I think the reason Xist held back from attacking out several times is that the phract strength differential was too much to risk. If he hadn't been playing Rome, I would have at least held Antium as well by now, and probably his capital too. I do think the value of Rome is really really high in comparison to a lot of other civs, but judge from this game as you will.

The other benefit of phracts is a bit of tech flexibility. Right now I am treating it as if I have already unlocked curaissers so I can skip the aesthetics / music line entirely, and just go straight for cannons. I am hoping this will let me make a big play in the near future. Either I will attack Aetryn if he threatens to become a runaway, or finish gobbling up Xist.

The UB would be nice on this map, getting one happy from horses, but it does have a bit of anti synergy, requiring drama when the civ doesn't benefit from going for those techs.

[Tarkeel]

The UB would be nice on this map, getting one happy from horses, but it does have a bit of anti synergy, requiring drama when the civ doesn't benefit from going for those techs.

That's a good point actually, and Colosseum over Theatre would be a better fit if we ever decide to fiddle more with civs.

(I'm still reading, but the pace has really thrown away my feeling for the game)

[greenline]

That's a good point actually, and Colosseum over Theatre would be a better fit if we ever decide to fiddle more with civs.

(I'm still reading, but the pace has really thrown away my feeling for the game)

I'll try to login after Xist plays today and give a general overview of the game, if that helps. (I have been told it is not kosher to log in to take screenshots on the wrong side of a turn split)

[greenline]

so, here's the state of the game:

Bing's second 12t GA just ended, and the same turn he popped one more. My guess is he is going for Taj to try and maximize the amount of GA turns he can use in the early Renaissance. I would be concerned if his research was stronger, but he's still lagging behind me and Aetryn significantly in both techs and hammers. I am not sure if it would be better for him or Aetryn to land Taj. I do not have marble and decided not to go in that part of the tech tree. More on that in a bit.







These are the three new cities settled in the northwest corner, and two more to be settled in the tundra backlines. Mercantalism and the shrine makes these cities worthwhile, imo.




This shot shows the level of fortification Bing has on the border. I have been drip feeding muskets and LBs so that we do not look like we are skimping on the defense. I do not think attacking on this axis will be productive.

The very short term goal, military wise, is to have enough garrison forces so that we can rotate the phract stack currently in Xistland anywhere we want. PRO definitely makes this easier.




The tech situation. Aetryn has been sandbagging Liberalism for a while. I am not sure what would be more valuable to him, Taj or instant Rep Parts or even the economics merchant. I feel like it was a mistake for me not to push him to burn Liberalism earlier. I just did not expect Bing would be so slow in making his way to that part of the tree. I also think that it would have been better to just gun 100% for Statue of Liberty. But I saw a couple of the players birth a great engineer, so maybe my current plan of cannons first is better.




Aetryn does not have quite so many visible units on the border. On the other hand, it is more awkward to advance on this axis.




Current shrine income, boosted by the grocer + market + bank. It will go up by two after settling two more cities. I will be just about out of land for tundra iceballs after this, though.




Core territory overview. I am finishing up my five universities while Atlas Shrugged chains overflow to immediately start on Oxford. I think getting Oxford ready was the right call, as that will be worth 90 beakers per turn currently.




One of the potential benefits of early steel. This is our ironworks city, which I have been steadily growing up to max size over the past 20 turns. Not sure if any of the other players have earmarked an ironworks spot.




Bureaucapital, fully grown and almost maxed on infrastructure.

Our current tech path is set on steel, but I am not certain if this is the best. We could look to grab the techs that have free great people aiming for a corporation. We could still try and aim for Statue. I'm hardly an expert on the modern era.

[Tarkeel]

Thanks for the overview! Some thoughts for later on:

When planting cities, remember that with serfdom economy one of your best tiles are grasshills; grass lumbermills are even better but rarer.

A nav-1 promoted galleon or transport staging from a fort N of Metamorphosis can hit Tenochtitlan in the opening move of a future war, and can only be seen by a sentry unit on the unroaded desert. Worth keeping in mind for later. If you do use this, only fort the turn you need it, as he can see the windmill disappear.

Keep an eye on Mediolanum's risk of flipping.

One of the potential benefits of early steel. This is our ironworks city, which I have been steadily growing up to max size over the past 20 turns. Not sure if any of the other players have earmarked an ironworks spot.

I like it; just add in watermills instead of farms when grown. I count five?

Our current tech path is set on steel, but I am not certain if this is the best. We could look to grab the techs that have free great people aiming for a corporation. We could still try and aim for Statue. I'm hardly an expert on the modern era.

Do we have any possibility for an engineer? MinInc ownership is likely to decide this; others might be saving theirs for this instead of statue. Likewise a merchant for Cereal or Sushi will be good.

[greenline]

A nav-1 promoted galleon or transport staging from a fort N of Metamorphosis can hit Tenochtitlan in the opening move of a future war, and can only be seen by a sentry unit on the unroaded desert. Worth keeping in mind for later. If you do use this, only fort the turn you need it, as he can see the windmill disappear.

Keep an eye on Mediolanum's risk of flipping.

Mediolanum is at no risk of flipping. Aetryn's culture only naturally extends to the mountains. The main city at risk of flipping is another of the captured roman ones [screenshot pending] - I had to deal with a revolt when I mistakenly moved some phracts out of it and didn't double check the flip chances.

As for the galleon attack on Bing, I'm feeling less and less like it will be the game winning move, just because Bing is burning all these golden ages and still not keeping pace with Aetryn or me in terms of tech. But it is good to have it as an option.

Do we have any possibility for an engineer? MinInc ownership is likely to decide this; others might be saving theirs for this instead of statue. Likewise a merchant for Cereal or Sushi will be good.

We have a chance for an engineer in 6 or so turns from Dune. We could aim for the economics merchant after steel, if Aetryn does not use it as his Lib target. I believe his GA ends this turn that just rolled.

[Tarkeel]

As for the galleon attack on Bing, I'm feeling less and less like it will be the game winning move, just because Bing is burning all these golden ages and still not keeping pace with Aetryn or me in terms of tech. But it is good to have it as an option.

Might be the game winning move by claiming land, not stopping a competitor

Do we have any possibility for an engineer? MinInc ownership is likely to decide this; others might be saving theirs for this instead of statue. Likewise a merchant for Cereal or Sushi will be good.

We have a chance for an engineer in 6 or so turns from Dune. We could aim for the economics merchant after steel, if Aetryn does not use it as his Lib target. I believe his GA ends this turn that just rolled.

Sounds worthwhile to try.

[greenline]

I'll aim to grab the economics merchant next if Aetryn has not gotten it first. If we get it, would it make sense to just aim for Biology?

Might be the game winning move by claiming land, not stopping a competitor wink

I'm afraid of trying to invade Bing even if we had planes and he didn't, to be honest. The ability of Aztecs to whip out an incredible amount of trash combined with his high pop makes his strategic depth appalling to think about.