WW33 - Walking Dead [GAME THREAD]

[Catwalk]

Sarcasm doesn't become you Rowain. That's why I put "Granted", meaning that it was a terrible play (as I stated one post earlier) but that Doctor was one of the worst roles he could have had for purposes of claiming. I can understand his reluctance to claim, even if waiting too long cost us dearly.

[Hashoosh]

Ugh. Parity is now distinctly possible...

[Rowain]

Lets hope both the SK and our vig hit scum tonight.

[Jabbz]

Nice spin yourself, you "respond" without actually making any valid points. Lets go down the list.

On the vote, I didn't say you had the vote on Az, that would be too obvious, instead you have been pushing this "Az is scummy" line since day 1, which is what I actually said.

I started to mention Az is scummy during the night.

6. He likely kept his vote on you because you are being far more aggressive about a stupid conjuncture conjuncture than is warranted by a townie.

You say that Az hasn't answered the qeuestions, or explained why he thought it was worth a vote, but he has posted more than almost anyone else, and while there are pictures yes, there is also a substantive amount of content aside from those pictures in most of the posts. Point in fact, he didn't start posting those pictures until Brick died, and no one had a problem with Brick posting pics. Why is it suspicious all of the sudden when Az does it?

He posted a lot but without giving an argument why me talking about a theory is scummy and deserved his vote for nearly the whole D1 nor why he needs an explanation for said theory. A perfect example is his flurry of posts from 265 to 275. 8 posts with lot of pictures but no content at all. When zak asks him about his tells all he gets is a big FU. No interest in helping the village at all. No interest to step back and play the game without childish reaction.


2 questions for you Jabbz: What will you do if Az get revealed as Bandit?
What will you do if Az get revealed as SK?

Question 1: While moot now at this point, if az got revealed as a bandit, I would likely have voted for Cat, as he would now look like he was defending an ally when he voted against you, rather than just fighting you, or cooperating with my logic, which was evidently rather lacking as no one else joined. Question 2, if he was revealed as SK, I’d still vote for you, as you wouldn’t know he wasn’t a townie, and still appear to be driving the move to lynch innocents. Since neither were the case though, I’m now even more convinced you are scum pushing to get us to kill ourselves off while you laugh in the background.

Jabbz, who would you vote for, if not Rowain?

At the time you asked this, it would have been Qg or Hash I think, though you aren’t off my list completely. I’d have to sit down and figure out what exactly makes me get scum readings on you though, so don’t fret about it too much, its more an indistinct feel than hard evidence atm.

Jowy said tie goes to scum. Not sure if it was for tie at the start of day or start of night, however.

I'm on my phone, and I likely won't get much more in before the deadline.

Rowain, I'm reading myself, you, matt and Azarius as townies, with catwalk, jabbz and Qgq feeling scummy. Undecided on goreripper.

Again, you say I feel scummy, and yet you haven’t given a single reason yet. This helps me feel more comfortable with the fact that you are of questionable character this game.

Azarius I love you in ways not approved by the Catholic Church.

I think the Catholic Church would only disapprove if one of you weren't human. I'm on to you, Goreripper...

But I am also very sorry Azarius you are acting like a joy full scum excited to kill three of us. And this is nothing like your normal self. Which makes me sad this should be your new normal.

What's up with the Azarius bandwagon? I'm getting scum red flags, do you guys operate on the 'suspect the third/fourth votes in a bandwagon' theory?

I don't think Goreripper ever answered this. And there's been no follow-up from Hashoosh either. Why not?

Hashoosh, you forgot to include me in your reads.

Azarius is not acting like him self at all. Rowain and Zakalwe are in my village or at least not wolf camp. I like the Catwalk lynch a little better and Hashoosh seems serious but I would like to follow two survivors over one. And like I said Azarius just has not tried to actually defend with reason or a solid claim but with post spam.

The way no body is moving makes me think Azarius might be the serial killer not on a team though.

Jabbz I know he is your friend and defended you but that is some thing scum do some times to get newbies on side.

You guys seem to be under the impression I’m defending him because he is my friend. While I wont deny there might be a small part of me that trusts him more than others, it wasn’t so much that I was defending him because I thought he was innocent, but because I thought Rowain sounded guilty as sin, for all the above reasons. I did get a strong impression Az was innocent, but that was kind of secondary to the fact I thought, and STILL think, that Rowain is scum. Az answered to my satisfaction all of Rowain’s claims, and Rowain developed some temporary reading disabilities, and just ignored it all.

@catwalk

typing unvote before you write a name in red doesn't unvote If you really don't want to vote for Hashoosh write another name or unvote in red.

OOn the game:

So far Matt, Hash and Cat have all 3 talked about me and Azarius being both town. If I believe them then wwe would have Qg, Gore, zak and Jabbz as scum. But honestly speaking I can't really see that working with their play so far.

Or I take one of those 3 as scum then the question remains why would they want to derail the train? Such a statement makes it only harder to make a lynch rowain move the next day. Their current preferences are Goreriper from Hash and Matt and zal from catwalk.

All that considered and taking Azarius not answers and his not claiming into account I rather lean Az as scum and keep my vote in place.

I notice that while you mention Az should have made his claim, you never stepped up and made your claim to start it going, even though others, myself included, indicated we would support such a move. Maybe it’s because you needed to see what Az was claiming first, so you could claim that instead you were that. If I read how things are going right now, we might not get to lynch tomorrow night, especially as you led the charge for us to lynch an innocent, and even if we do lynch you tomorrow, and you are evil, it still sounds like a good tradeoff in the meantime, a 1 for 3 trade if you will.

Which meaneven if I unvote, vote myself, or xy Azarius still dies. And I rather take the responsibility then being a coward.

Or to put it more succinctly, I’d rather lynch a person I’m positive is innocent, because the only arguments against him stem from me, rather than risk one of my fellow scum getting voted out.

Who's not voting relevantly at the moment? Azarius and Jabbz?
Is Azarius even awake to save his own life?

Az said last night he wouldn’t be around, and as I said earlier, I had to go to the airport. So Rowain was free to push more on the kill the innocent guy train, knowing that neither Az nor the only guy not blinded by Rowain, was there to stop him.

Day 2 write-up:

Discovering three dead bodies in the morning set the mood for the day. Desperation was setting in, but even then the Survivors trusted their system. Without order, they've got nothing. So they sat down once again to figure out who were the bandits among them. At the end of the day, they decided to lynch Azarius. It's always the quiet ones. He willingly submitted himself to his destiny, and the group watched as their strongest swinged the axe to Azarius' head, making sure he would not come back to this world.

Azarius was lynched. He was a Survivor Doctor.

Night 2 begins. You have 24 hours to send in your actions.

Sometimes I hate being right. I told you this was going to happen. That it’s our (possibly) only doctor just makes it even worse.

Oh bloody hell. At least we were right, but that was terrible play Azarius

Is there any possible strategic reason he wouldn’t out himself as Dr.? I know Az to be a pretty smart guy, and VERY competitive, so I can’t see him just throwing in the towel out of frustration. I lack the experience to really follow the scenario out to its conclusion. What, logically, would have happened had Az admitted to being the Dr. I assume some part of that would be Rowain, or one of his two (?) teammates claiming to be the Dr. instead, for the reasons I mentioned above about it being a 1/3 tradeoff.

Everybody agreed that Azarius should have claimed if he had anything to claim. Everybody also agreed that a full claim was a bad idea, and I'm starting to agree it looks like a fishing attempt by you.

Granted, Doctor was the worst role he could have claimed. It would have doomed him to death the following night, and we could even have suspected him of making a fake claim as it's the best scum role to claim (in order to prove him wrong, the real doctor would have to be outed).

Yeah clearly lynching him is the better outcome. Had everyone claimed we would have an idea where to look for scum. Had a scum counterclaimed they would have a difficulty to kill him in the night (as that would condemn the scum also claiming doctor)

I’m glad someone recognizes that fishing attempt for what it is, albeit late. I think that Rowain’s response is here very telling. Not only does he show that he himself only paid lip service to the reveal (he never did it after all) but that he already knew what he was going to claim. Though I doubt he knew what Az was, Dr, as people have said above, was a no brainer claim. 1/3 tradeoff for the win.

Lets hope both the SK and our vig hit scum tonight.

So they should aim for you?

[Jabbz]

I'm sure it goes without saying, but... Rowain.

[Rowain]

I notice that while you mention Az should have made his claim, you never stepped up and made your claim to start it going, even though others, myself included, indicated we would support such a move.

People have indicated they would support such a move really?

Lets look at the answers I got:

I'm sceptical of what a mass role claim would give us. I don't think it's an outrageous or scummy suggestion, but it seems like the scum benefits outweigh the town benefits.

I think people should claim away if they are under pressure, but I'm not sure that there's much point to claiming otherwise.

Not sure I'd be willing to go that far.

That doesn't sound that supportive here. TBC

[Rowain]

I notice that while you mention Az should have made his claim, you never stepped up and made your claim to start it going, even though others, myself included, indicated we would support such a move.

And now lets look how supportive Jabbz was:

first

If that's the group consensus, I'm down, but I'd rather have it be everyone agreeing, rather than one guy fishing for a good second night target.

followed by

Actually, after thinking for a few mins I think I'm going to say Rowain unless some others also think this is a good idea, because ATM it sounds like a fishing expedition.

and finally

I still haven't seen anyone else come out and say "ya know what, that's a good idea." which tells me that while it may not be 100% bad, at the very least its fishy and strategically questionable, it could also be fishING, and I'm not satisfied enough that's not the case to move my vote.

Yep Jabbz was really supporting the idea of a claim . You have a passion for telling untrues in your posts.

[Rowain]

On a different note: to avoid the SK and the Vig targetting the same player I suggest that the Vig works his list of targets from the bottom up and the SK from top down.
Example both have Qg and jabbz in their list then the Vig should target Qg and the SK jabbz.

(and yes any vig still having munition should use it - the game might be over tomorrow anyway.)

[Azarius]

Can't say I'm surprised.

[Jabbz]

Emphasis mine:

Jabbz, a random bandwagon may still very well hit an innocent, but if we don't try to bandwagon with people we think are innocent, we leave the scum with way too much voting power, so they can easily direct the lynch wherever they want to.

In the worst case, we have 5 innocents and 4 scum. So everybody gets to pick 4 people they think are innocent, and the rest are scum. As my innocents, I pick you, Rowain, Q, and Mattimeo. Probably not right about all of those, but it's my best guess at the moment. So then it seems like a very good idea to vote with Rowain and Q, even if I might have picked a different target on my own.

It also makes sense to push Azarius hard right out of the gate, since if he has a role to claim, I'd prefer to hear it ASAP rather than right before the deadline. If we flush out all claims today, that is still worth it IMO, if it means we are able to make an accurate lynch.

I haven't read Azarius' replies yet, I will do that now.

Zak saying it would be a good idea, but clearly hesitant to be the first one.

If that's the group consensus, I'm down, but I'd rather have it be everyone agreeing, rather than one guy fishing for a good second night target.

Clearly saying I'm behind it if others are.

On a different note. If one of the 3 were killed by a 1-shot-vig I would ask him to step up.

Agreed. Would give us an almost confirmed (assuming no counter-claim) effective vanilla town, as well as some more information on the roll results.

As a matter of fact I think an allout roleclaim might be in order.

Not sure I'd be willing to go that far. Would result in certain death for the full doctor (which we know we have) tonight.
...unless there's an SK and they and the scum WIFOM it. That would be hilarious

Jabbz - Rowain calling for claims isn't that unprecedented, regardless of faction, from what I recall. Not sure it's a tell either way.

Saying it's not a big deal that you are making the claim. Not direct support, but not opposition either.

I think people should claim away if they are under pressure, but I'm not sure that there's much point to claiming otherwise. I don't think there's much wiggle room for fake claims from scum here, anyway.

The biggest uncertainty about the setup is whether or not we have 3 Vs. We would need the multi-shot vig to claim to clear that up. But I think that can wait, unless he's in danger of being lynched. The doctor should definitely not claim before he has to.

You were definitely under pressure, as it was your idea to do the reveal. You could have started it, and others would have followed, at the very least, Az would likely have followed, as to not do so at that point would have 100% condemned him if he was town, which, oh yeah, he was. Which, oh yeah, you knew.

Also, based on how inactive this day has been so far I'm guessing that the scum are quite content with seeing that spat run its course.

I had a similar thought, which is another reason that I didn't like your vote for Q, as it looked like a way to just pass the time with something silly, while waiting for the day to run its course. My LyLo comment refers to the fact that another mislynch may well be game over for town.

Azarius, to make any progress here, I think we need you to calmly explain why you want (or wanted) Rowain to explain his Zakalwe/Novice theory. In other words, why do the details of that theory actually matter? Are they even relevant here? I think that is what Rowain is getting at, though I could be wrong.

Also, if you have a role to claim, I think you need to do it now.

Jabbz, have you abandoned your bulldog theory?

Once again, someone saying they thought it was a good idea.

I think we're fairly close to a point where a mass claim can be beneficial, and I don't think bringing up the topic is scummy.

I'm going to throw my vote on Hashoosh who seems to be cruising below the radar quite succesfully. Maybe he has 2 team mates who are deflecting attention elsewhere?

And again.

I agree that last minute claims would be bad. That's why I've been saying claim away, if you're under pressure.

If we do end up resolving the Rowain/Azarius dispute the hard way, I'll be siding with Rowain. So I'm putting my vote back on Azarius now that he should be coming back on-line, to give him fair warning.

I would also like to hear more from Hashoosh.

And again.

I notice that while you mention Az should have made his claim, you never stepped up and made your claim to start it going, even though others, myself included, indicated we would support such a move.

People have indicated they would support such a move really?

Lets look at the answers I got:

I'm sceptical of what a mass role claim would give us. I don't think it's an outrageous or scummy suggestion, but it seems like the scum benefits outweigh the town benefits.

I think people should claim away if they are under pressure, but I'm not sure that there's much point to claiming otherwise.

Not sure I'd be willing to go that far.

That doesn't sound that supportive here. TBC

I notice that while you mention Az should have made his claim, you never stepped up and made your claim to start it going, even though others, myself included, indicated we would support such a move.

And now lets look how supportive Jabbz was:

first

If that's the group consensus, I'm down, but I'd rather have it be everyone agreeing, rather than one guy fishing for a good second night target.

followed by

Actually, after thinking for a few mins I think I'm going to say Rowain unless some others also think this is a good idea, because ATM it sounds like a fishing expedition.

and finally

I still haven't seen anyone else come out and say "ya know what, that's a good idea." which tells me that while it may not be 100% bad, at the very least its fishy and strategically questionable, it could also be fishING, and I'm not satisfied enough that's not the case to move my vote.

Yep Jabbz was really supporting the idea of a claim . You have a passion for telling untrues in your posts.

You have a penchant for for selectively quoting individuals, in order to misrepresent them. You also do so to avoid looking at the big picture, as you did with Azarius' responses. I find it very telling as well that, despite the fact that you were wrong about azarius, you now expect others to follow your direction again, in killing the ONLY other person that has been aggressively charging you on your constant misinformation and pointless accusations. Your reasoning for killing me is, ZOMG he's attacking me HALP! I'm pretty sure no one is going to fall for it this time. Nice job delaying your response too, so that fewer people read it before the night is over. Again, very telling.