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Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

Nubia-Turn 50

Start off in the southwest...




Cornflakes is retreating his units. I decide to fortify my archer and think this is probably the most defensive spot in the area. It is covered from the trees from the southeast and units will be bogged down by the marsh. He will probably stay here for a while. So, now that the city has been razed, let's get some diplomacy down. Starting with...




Offer Khmer straight peace. Doesn't look like he wants to push on us as he is retreating, so I see no reason why he wouldn't accept. This will give both of us a little breather. Since I am at it, I decide to send...


 

and...


 

Let them know I have no aggressive intentions towards them and only want to protect my lands. I still do need to get some units down here to cover my flanks but first I will take Kandy with teh next 2 warriors out of Amon. Amon finishes a builder (who goes south) and starts a warrior (due in 2). I should be ble to kick out 2 warriors in 5 turns. 

Since I am founding my new city next turn, I send...


 

Sorry to take most of your gold but we really need to buy those tiles. I did request 10 more than needed in case the tile costs increase. Isis grabbed the sheep tile and I was able to switch tiles around to have the encampment out in 2. 

In the southeast...




Settler will be able to found new city next turn unless Russia has one ready to found on his turn that would block me. Keeping fingers crossed.

In the north...




This is a really good city spot. Lots of food and high production. I might have to get this one founded quickly and use it as a settler pump. Maybe after Horus, IDK?

CMF, if it is not too late, you can send your 1st settler to the Khmer front. Better to settle that location quickly before he sends one there to seal it off. Then again, I don't know if he would risk it before he gets a few more cities founded. Anyways, mind as well get it settled since we went to war over it.
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It's not too late. My settler only walked 2 tiles towards the canal city - I can still get Leyte up 7 turns from now, the same time that Salamis finishes a settler, which I can send to Jutland. That will lock down the border with Khmer and put our territory in the west right where we want it to be. I think, with the island cities and my navy, we can safely dominate the western isthmus, so a canal city there - while useful down the line - isn't so high a priority.

I forgot to mention in my notes that I also sent a peace treaty to both Japper and Cornflakes - wasn't sure if you had sent it or not, so better safe than sorry, I figured.
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After sleeping on it, I don't think Germany/Russia will accept my friendship requests. They really don't have any reason too. From their perspective, we are at war with Khmer/Kongo, my army is most likely over in teh southwest, and we are most likely not up to another war. My mistake, I should have waited until after we got peace! I guess we will see but even if they don't accept it, it doesn't mean they are looking for aggression. They may just want us to worry and keep us on our toes. Regardless, I will still push out some warriors for potential upgrades, units to take Kandy, and inflate my military power to make them think twice about attacking.

As for Khmer and Kongo, if they do accept peace, you (CMF) may want to move your warriors up and occupy the tile you want to settle your next city to prevent them from doing the same to prevent us from founding. They might also send another settler up there to resettle while at peace and we can't let that happen or this war was for not. I think the chances of them settling another city in the land bridge is low but we still need to think about it as an option. If they don't accept it, I would retreat to the defensive terrain and fortify. My archer will be able to cover and hit units if they push forward.

My plans for the coming turns are to kick out a few warriors while researching Political Philosophy and once PP is finished I am going to settler spam until I can get out 7 or 8. Hopefully I can take Kandy around the time I finish PP, then I can have 3 cities on settler duty. Amon will probably push 2 settlers out and then go for horseman. Isis will probably build 1 and then go for horseman. Kandy will build a galley and then go settlers no stop. I will go into my strategy more in the coming turns, but wanted to share my thoughts on the diplomacy. If Kongo/Khmer don't want peace, I may have to adjust my strategy appropriately.
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Nubia-Turn 51

Early turn today, Sullla must be off from work...oh, wait he works for the federal government, doesn't he? Or am I miss remembering something. I am working from home due to a blizzard in the great winter north, so I was able to play when the turn arrived. 

Start off by seeing...




All 4 of my international deals were rejected but we do have peace (CMF did send gold). Good thing you also send peace to both of them. I don't know who accepted. Maybe on your turn you can tell. Both friendship offers were rejected and as I stated previously, I should have waited until this turn at least. We will have to see if they come back in a few turns to offer it now that we are not at war. Of coarse, they could declare now that...




I settled the middle canal location and quick buy the ivory and woods tile where I plan an Encampment. I placed a pin where I think the closest Russian city could go and I think it won't grab the wines tile. I don't know what is east of the lakes, so potentially a city location over there that can grab the tile. I don't remember if Russia can grab 3rd ring tiles when founded, I believe it is only 2nd ring. I will have to go back and look at PBEM2 because I seem to remember a similar situation there. I think we will know thier intentions soon. They will declare if they think this is their land or leave it be if they are not looking for war. Anyways, I start an archer and will switch to a warrior as soon as it gets down to 1 turn, while I wait for the builder to chop the forest on the encampment tile. I also start off working the iron and my science is up to 10.9Icon_Science . Encampment at Isis is due next turn for another +2Icon_Science for completing Seoul's quest and I might have the highest science rate next turn.

In the north...




Archers are making their way over to Kandy and I figure I will have my northern archer defog a little of the tundra as he heads east. See if I can find another bard camp up here. That is about it for my turn. Horseback Riding due in 3 turns and Political Philosophy in 7. Expansion for me will come a little late but I still like our position and we should be able to catch up once we get Valletta online and England can build a few RNDs.

Edit: CMF, I do have a little extra gold (ended up with 40 in bank). If you need some just let me know but my income is about to drop to 1 gpt due to the encampment.
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Turn 51

Another relatively quiet turn over here in England. Sorry for the subdued tone today, guys, but for some reason I'm just feelin' down and can't shake this feeling of gloom. Ah, well, y'all are here for Civ, so let's get to that! 

I was hoping to make contact with Sullla or Singaboy soon, but my scout continues to push with no cities in sight. Apart from Japper's city to the south, the settler map just reveals green all around. I have to say, I wish I'd had access to THIS area to settle in, or Woden's spot - it feels like I got the only wide land bridge in the game! Maybe Archduke and Sullla/Singaboy's bridge is wide, like mine with Khmer. 




There's spots for good cities on the spices and cows here, and any military campaign would need ships as it winds among the lakes - a squadron of frigates could wreak havoc on any advance. -sigh- I won't complain too much, though, you know you're taking a risk on these maps and tying your strategy too firmly to geography is a bad idea. Anyway, I push my scout galley, Ocean, further south on the other front and I think I've reached the end of the tiny stupid island chains, down in the tundra:




Three modestly sized islands, looks like, with potentially more out in the ocean. 

Other than that the turn is quiet - I direct my settler towards the Leyte site, right next to ruined Aranyaka. It's 10 turns out, so it'll arrive right as the truce expires with Team Relic. I have more thoughts on that in a second. I set up most of my units in a loose defensive line on the hills and forests in front of Woden's archer. I need to hold the settling sites, while I'm upgrading my slingers (Woden, I'd save the gold - if Molotov-Ribbentrop get frisky you can upgrade your last slinger to an archer, otherwise let's avoid the maintenance cost). My own GPT is suffering badly - again, more thoughts on that in a sec. Trafalgar needs 2 turns to finish an archer, intended to escort settler #3 out of Salamis, which is due in 7 turns. Actium finishes a builder in 4 turns. I'd like to purchase the sheep there, and get some growth going - the city has good resources, but all in the second ring. A monument here is needed. 

So, yeah, I'm a little disorganized, but I want to do a larger strategy post as of turn 50. 

Woden and I played the early game with some definite goals: We wanted to use the production saved by skipping a religion to grab our share of land and expand more quickly than our neighbors. How well did we do? Well, not as well as I hoped. This may be colored by my generally gloomy mood today, so take all my words with a grain of salt, but I'm mildly dissatisfied with our present position. 

1)Aranyaka was a great victory for us, but we must be realistic about the actual impact. On the positive side, we established room to settle, and we set Khmer back, hopefully fatally - he's on one city 50 turns into the game, while Rome has four! (or five? Need to check scores). However, we did nothing positive for our own position apart from a leg up over Khmer, and a bit more territory. We need to settle the damn place to get direct benefits, and we need to hold it. 

2)Diplomatically, Mike's forward settle is causing us headaches. Emperor and Archduke, cowed 15 turns ago, have massively expanded their armies and are facing down Woden at the canal. We settled the middle city ahead of them - a win - but they rejected our offer of friendship. They saw our war with Mike and took advantage, and have no intention, it seems, of giving us a safe flank. There may be productive resource trades available here, though - I really want to cultivate peace with this team. My biggest worry now is a 2 v 1 as they join Relic in an invasion of us. No idea who wins in that scenario, otehr than it ain't us. 

The other diplomatic problem is, of course, Relic. I have no doubt they feel everlasting enmity for us. I mean, fair cop, but Mike DID settle right in my face (not that he knew that). I hope Cornflakes has no hard feelings, since he took over in the middle of the war, but he could very well be out for revenge. Now, am I worried that they'll be able to hurt us as much as we hurt them? Eh, I don't think so. In 10 turns I will have ironworking, oligarchy, and walls in my forward cities available, with 5 cities producing support to Relic's 3 total atm (my civ alone is as large as their entire civ! So is Woden's!). However, being forced to build military will put me even farther behind the economic curve. 

3)That brings me to my final dissatisfaction - right now I'm economically backwards. Here's Trafalgar, 51 turns into the game:




I anticipate that after the game when he does his traditional analysis Sullla is going to rip this city to shreds. It's great at building units - and nothing else. Growth to size 4 is slow, and I miss out on good tiles. The farm build was a massive error of builder micro. I planned it to get the irrigation bonus, which I needed to plantation my silk...except that by the time I farmed the damn wheat, I'd already farmed rice in Salamis. As a result, I'm still working the unimproved bananas - 51 turns into the game! I've built only 2 builders all game. A builder is next after the archer, and I'm going to seriously work on getting this capital into shape. A plantation, chopping that riverside hill, and planting a mine there is my wish list. The chop will go for a monument, likely - I'd like to do a district but an encampment is the only useful one I cna build, and I'd rather get a gold generating district out first. 

That will make Trafalgar a much stronger city overall, hopefully. Woden, you're a much better builder* than I am, so any advice would be much appreciated. 

Salamis is little better:



It grows quickly, but production is hard to come by - I thought the copper mine would do more than it did. Border growth onto the nearby hills is also slow. A monument would help. I want to get a builder out to plantation the tea (I'm working the production instead of the science to finish the settler faster) and perhaps get some mines onto the hills. The stone will be harvested into an RND once I have the tech. Again, I need a monument to grow onto the best tiles - I get why Dave wasn't enthused with this city. Still, as a second plant, I'm not sure I could have done better, and it has been valuable for its galleys and support production. It can be a good city, it just needs time to develop.

Here's Actium. THIS city's issue is lack of food:



Fish and cows are both third ring, so I'll need to purchase them. In the meantime, the city grows at a snail's pace. A granary is needed here, to add food and alleviate the housing penalty. If I can get it up to 5 pop, I should have enough native production to keep ahead of the curve with an aqueduct, lighthouses, plantations, etc. Note also that the tile picker bafflingly wants the 2/2 stone over the 2/2/1 silk, because reasons. 

So I have 3 mediocre cities, which means I'm going to start falling behind if I don't engage in some serious infrastructure investment pronto. I've been competitive in science and expansion so far thanks to simple pop, but that's not gonna last. So, medium term goals, in decreasing order of priority:

1)Settle the disputed area with Khmer to make sure the Battle of Aranyaka wasn't wasted. 
2)Make sure Kongo/Khmer can't easily get revenge for razing their city - maintain a force strong enough to hold until Nubia can arrive.
3)Build infrastructure - builders, monuments, granaries - in my cities and get them growing. 
4)Find city expansions I actually LIKE, instead of territorial expansion for the sake of it. Find a way to take Kabul while maintaining a garrison on the border. Think about settling islands. 
5)Research to the districts I want and start to plant those. 

That will set us up for a confrontation with Kongo/Khmer with a much stronger economic base in ~30 turns? To get all that developed? 

So, overall, I give myself a B- for my play thus far. We've almost singlehandedly knocked one team out of the running, but a)that benefits our rivals just as much as it does us - maybe even MORE since it's not like Japper has a grudge against Singaboy now - and b)it's also thanks to Mike being foolhardy with his play, depending on stolen gold. I can't attribute much of it to my own design. Another positive is doing well in the land race, only falling behind Rome/China combined - and they have STUPID good early advantages (which we do not) and STUPID good players (well, Woden's alright, but I'm not really bringing much to the table here). On the downside, my civ is starting to become backwards, and examining my cities, I'm disatisfied with all of them. The early investment in military I cannot admit as an error, given our city-states and given the necessity of taking out Khmer's pink dot, but at the same time it comes with heavy costs. Now we've gotta work to mitigate those costs and focus on the future. 

*player
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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CMF,

We injured one of our neighbors and put him back a little, so the war was not for nothing.

I think you need to switch to Celestial Navigation and research it without the boost. While researching it, have a few cities build builders, then archers and hold them at 1 turn. Once CN is done, place the harbor and chop the archer into it while running Agoge. This should make your 1/2 cost harbors complete in 1 turn. You will get more military and improve your economy. Then you will also have more trade routes to improve the food in your cities. I would have your capital do nothing but kick out settlers while you are getting the +4Icon_Production. It is too early to worry about graineries and monuments at the moment. Expand and get your district down ASAP. Bronze Working can wait and you will be in a better situation once CN is finished. It is too early in the game to worry about major infrastructure and improvements. Expand and protect is the name of the game now.

As for the front in the southwest. If you can get a builder out of Actium soon-ish. It might be a good idea to send him to the front and chop walls at your new city. I am pretty sure if Cornflakes doesn't see a way forward, he will be determined to make our game a living hell. I would send all your units down to the southwest in case he does attack in 10 turns.

Just remember, in all the PBEMs I have played, I don't think the winner was not leading this early.
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Heh, it's not the score I'm worried about - I've repeatedly pointed out how that's misleading this early - but my own economic situation, which, while not awful, isn't great either.

Your plan of using builders to chop through archers to RNDs is good, but I'll need 12 turns to research Celestial Navigation - so 15 turns from now once I finish Bronze Working. My one concern is that delaying iron working means in 10 turns Japper can come after me with his UUs and I won't have swordsmen to repel him. I might need your help with a couple of horsemen in that case. If each city has walls and an archer, with horsemen and warriors in the space between, that should hold long enough to finish iron working, I think?

Well, maybe not. Assuming I get the Eureka, I'll need 6 turns after Celestial Navigation to get it, so 21 turns from now. 11 turns seems a long time to hold out with outdated tech. Of course, I don't HAVE any iron...I could make do with horses? I'm only 6 turns from that now. I could finish BW, finish HBR, chop one archer into an encampment at Trafalgar, then finish CN 21 turns from now and chop out RNDs at Actium, Leyte, and Salamis. How does that sound?
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If you are worried about Japper's UU, the maybe not settle the forward city yet. Settle the city spot between Actuim and Salamis, which will grab your iron. We can always raze another city if Cornflakes is so daring. We don't have to forward settle, just prevent them from doing it. Actium is very defensible and we have lots of terrain to work with. All you need is a defensive force and let him come to you. I will get the general and have an attack force is the coming turns that will push on them.

We can't both go military builds because our economies will suck. I already can't build more archers, or I will go broke. We need your harbors and trade routes ASAP. At least research it half way, so you have it the moment you grab 2 seafoods. Maybe even send a unit to scoop out up by Valletta to see if there is seafood up there. That way you can get a city going sooner.
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That sounds good - I'll settle the closer spot. It seals off the peninsula, it's defensive, etc. With our lead in city development we should be able to win a war in the late Classical or early Medieval ages.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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If you settle the location in the middle of all your cities (marked with my maker as "Opt A & B"), you could start working a culture tile or science tile. It will be slow growing to start but should be a nice city once it gets going.
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