it's not within first-ring range of the copper or anything, but something something beggarchooser = don't do that
i was VERY close to mismoving onto the hill 1E of the scout and missing exactly this tile potentially for a while lol. Defog Thorougly
a vast and trackless expanse of desert!
lucky GT can take a copper city next to FP and a dry wheat! well... except that it's way further away from him than ours is, so i'm not sure it's better exactly...
(February 6th, 2024, 11:31)aetryn Wrote: Also random thought for consideration - would it be worth teching Mysticism so we can place the city in between the foods, build a monument, and have 2 of them? That MIGHT cost the NE river valley a food, but then it might not if there's food up there in the fog we haven't seen.
i did sim this out (and will try again) but signs don't look too good the main problem is we're already on the edge of being tech-gated - we get the wheel on exactly the turn we need it to start roading south.... we could do mysticism after (delaying pottery...) but we'd be without a monument for an extended period of time. that could still change in the next few turns based on scouting info if we decide not to rush south, perhaps it could work out in that universe?
Do you guys think we should try for a fifth city in the west at the GT border wheat or in the NE river valley? It's a little early to ask that but the direction we send the third worker next turn determines whether the final plan has an extra road extending towards one or the other lol. Obviously GT wheat is a better site but it's very far away and early enough that I'm concerned it's a bridge too far in terms of pinkdottiness, especially if we are already rushing to the gold. even with AGG zulu we may not want to immediately forward-settle all our neighbors lol
What would be nice is a map of territory between GT and us, with his capital marked (even if it's offscreen, you can stick a dot there or something) and a line where the halfway point is between us. Most people will accept a settle 2 away from the halfway point as okay (so that borders don't quickly pass across it). 1 away or across the halfway line starts looking pretty aggressive.
Glad we found sheep, at this point any food is a real lifeline. Unless we find another food (seafood maybe?) this is probably a later settle though since we can't use the silk for a couple thousand years. I sassume the scouts split and explore the coast up to the rivers, then back down?
The sheep does give us a way to get copper in a more reasonable timeframe with mysticism, settling with either the sheep or the copper in the first ring and planning to either hard build or whip a monument to get the other resource in play. It's still not great, but if copper access were the primary driver behind pushing for the gold region, this gives a more viable alternative.
scouts are pretty much going to do that, yeah. if[ the borders we see in the fog are indeed the capital, we are 19 tiles away and the GT dividing line looks roughly like this
@williams well, we certainly could settle next to the sheep, but then we'd have to wait to build a monument and 10t for the borders to pop, which delays the hookup into the t50s or we can settle next to the northern copper but then the city is foodless until the t50s which also sucks. the primary allure of the southern copper site, to me, is that it has both a flood plain and the copper in first ring so we can hook it up and start on a granary or actual copper unit right away. and then secondarily it is a springboard to the gold, which, as mediocre as it is by objective standards, is indeed still the best short-term city site we've defogged so far IMO
note to me: i routed around the missing turn but it wasn't pretty. here's the key position on the turn we start roading
TWO workers on the 2S hill, revolt while the THIRD city settler is in transit (so on that turn, t40), and next turn's worker must go SE from the capital. repeat that until it is thoroughly ingrained in your thick skull and it will all come together
Are you writing out a turn-by-turn list of instructions to follow? I'd strongly recommend that if you're worried about making these sorts of errors in the moment.
not sure i quite have the time to do that before pretending to be a responsible human today, but here is a drawing lol
^^ this is out to t42, after which it's pretty much "move south, road south", except for the purple worker who has to burn a turn pre-chopping 3S of the capital
all three of the roading workers end up in the south stuck on 7-turn floodplains farms, so as much as this opening is going a bit overboard we actually will probably need more after the gold city settler...
somehow i have latched on to Commodore's PB74 as a baseline for "good expansion given no direct snowballing traits" (they are FIN/ORG of Maya i believe):
2 behind on total pop (kD under the wheat icon is size 4). they have an 8th city settler on the board, we have a 7th. 8th is 2t from being whipped out of the capital, but we are still a bit behind on expansion. and also it actually might not be as the cap has a library and i still have half a mind to run 2 scientists for an early academy. in return we are a bit ahead on tech, but we had PRO and skipped some things they prioritized (fishing and sailing at least). somehow i think i am still missing something major in expansion strategy...... although i'm sure not needing to build these enormous roads in the middle of the wilderness helped some
in Commodore's thread i am reading that in their opinion plemo had some kind of crazy strong landgrab in this game - were they EXP? or do we have any idea what might be responsible?
We could be in a strong position for MoM at that western city - tech masonry -> calendar after this, move a ton of workers over, and just mathchop 10 forests into it lol. I imagine this will be decently fast for Currency tech so I think we'll have a window of some size. Not sure if it's worth that kind of investment though after the CtH nerfs
i'm tired of simming, i'm just going to trust myself and play this one (though moving the new worker is the divergence point between lines)
ok so double-move the first scout southeast onto desert hill and WAIT wtf oasis takes 2 moves to move on???
and the next unit in the queue is the new worker and both move attempts went through and it is moving on its own holy shit!!!!
onto the EXACT tile we wanted to move it to anyways.
i still haven't exhaled even as i'm typing this up
found the food:
not hitting end turn because, ughhhh, we have to sim more. western city now looks stronger than the gold and we may need to rush there instead. such an opening won't mind a third worker due to the big huge obnoxious road we're gonna need but a fourth could be overkill
future me: double-check the scout when you next log on to make sure it doesn't have moves in the queue
if we're gonna do this cow city is mega cancelled. we'd have to put the second city west on ivory and steal the capital's wheat; aint no way we're holding an arguable pinkdot 8 tiles away from the rest of civilization. and it frees up wheatcow area until mysticism which is sweet. but the huge problem is that plan has us forward-settling GT with no copper access! and that seems kinda self-destructive lol
alternative: capital wheat city, copper, gold, western wheatcow, eastern wheatcow in that order
west pinkdot would very likely be SW of the cow we just found. river defense bonus
(February 6th, 2024, 22:46)ljubljana Wrote: ok so double-move the first scout southeast onto desert hill and WAIT wtf oasis takes 2 moves to move on???
[...]
and the next unit in the queue is the new worker and both move attempts went through and it is moving on its own holy shit!!!!
Yeah, oasis takes two moves, and this is one of the reasons why I always do moves with the mouse instead of keys. Also, this kind of worker mis-move so early will be grounds for a reload.
Nothing to surprising about Plemo making a fast start; he's IMP/FIN, which means cheap settlers and then also enough economy to afford that rapid expansion. Couple with a successful early crippling of a couple neighbors, it makes sense that he'd be out to a very rapid lead.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
the main problem is we're already on the edge of being tech-gated - we get the wheel on exactly the turn we need it to start roading south.... we could do mysticism after (delaying pottery...) but we'd be without a monument for an extended period of time. that could still change in the next few turns based on scouting info if we decide not to rush south, perhaps it could work out in that universe?
