(November 1st, 2014, 18:28)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: I'd really prefer not to fight a spoiled opponent who may know, for example, exactly how many units I have available to ship in to continue the invasion. Or who may know, generally, how many of my units are positioned away from this conflict or whether another opponent is about to take action against my invasion and then use this information for some advantage.
In the end, if there is no unspoiled option I don't want to hold the game up, but I don't really have to like it either.
No worries, the only reason I'd offered to help out was because the civ had been turned over to AI, with associated impacts on competitiveness, etc. I stayed out of the threads since then just incase the rest of the players thought that you & Cyne eating an AI was unbalancing to the game, but that time seems to have passed. FWIW, I do most of my catch-up on these games at work and that firewalls out all of your pictures (as well as those of many other competitors) so I do lose a lot of the details while still keeping the broad strokes. Anyway, moot point.
I'll be following the rest of your game with interest!
(November 7th, 2014, 11:59)Gawdzak Wrote: Any plans for the Engineer? What about your next golden age?
First, don't mind the Sistine Chapel build in Yellowstone. I don't expect to finish that but I'm just dumping hammers until I can get started on Oxford in a few turns. Three turns I think. I might have changed that to a settler now anyway. I have all the economy buildings in that I can build for now except a courthouse.
I have the GP needed to fire another GA now. Interestingly, I'm missing a GS for the three man GA. This is, in theory, the easiest GP for me to generate due to The Great Library and the free scientist from Research Institute, which just finished in my NE city. Probably the best thing to do since I'm not quite ready for another GA right now (cities in revolt, NE city still refilling the food box) is to hang on to the GE for GA #4 (well, #5 because I landed Taj) because I'm statistically unlikely to be able to force another GE. I'll hope to generate another each of Artist, Merchant, and Scientist to go with the Engineer for that GA. I'll make a GS as the last part of the three man GA. I have steadfastly NOT done the math to count up how long this would take, but it is a long, long time. I'm currently generating GP #12 or 13, I don't remember right now but I think it is #12, which is the GS for the 3-man GA. So that makes numbers 13, 14, and 15 one each of a GA, GS, and GM to go with the GE for the 4-man GA. Even at ~150GPP/turn when I'm running a food deficit, that's going to take a while. Eyeballing it, that's 4200 GPP/ 150 GPP/turn (when running food deficit, which is not totally sustainable) for 28 turns. The 150 GPP/turn may have been the figure when I'm around -6f/turn while in the GA, I don't remember now, so this could well be an optimistic timetable. One thing I could do is spread a few religions in the NE city and just try for a great prophet on each GP. Anyway, there is plenty for me to sort out here. I don't think anyone else is likely to get close to this number of golden ages. I wish I had built MoM. Maybe it would be worth it for me to raid it from Dazed and then fire the GAs on that turn and steal a few extra GA turns before he inevitably takes the city back.
Anyway, I don't see any wonders coming up immediately that are worth rushing. I'm not going to divert for SoL. While I'd prefer that Krill/novice not get that with Rep, I'm not going to spend ~13,500 beakers on Constitution and Democracy just for that. The best wonder that I'm interested in next is The Kremlin, which I would need Democracy for to benefit from the rush buying (I'm not whipping anymore). I can see OH/Fin making this a priority with discounted whips, and dtay certainly will aim for this. Both have an economic advantage over me right now, so using the GE for a GA will get me an earlier completion date than saving the GE for rushing the wonder. Whoever gets to Communism first is going to get the wonder. I'd like the Great Spy too (who wouldn't? ). I am not confident that I'll get there first, though. Dtay already has Liberalism and is teching faster than I am (IIRC he's also in Free Religion). I'm going to keep building up infrastructure and see if the additional GAs over more total cities will let me catch up, but he's doing very well right now and will be tough to catch. I'll just need to keep adding cities and making them pay off.
I'd really prefer not to fight a spoiled opponent who may know, for example, exactly how many units I have available to ship in to continue the invasion. Or who may know, generally, how many of my units are positioned away from this conflict or whether another opponent is about to take action against my invasion and then use this information for some advantage.
In the end, if there is no unspoiled option I don't want to hold the game up, but I don't really have to like it either.
No worries, the only reason I'd offered to help out was because the civ had been turned over to AI, with associated impacts on competitiveness, etc. I stayed out of the threads since then just incase the rest of the players thought that you & Cyne eating an AI was unbalancing to the game, but that time seems to have passed. FWIW, I do most of my catch-up on these games at work and that firewalls out all of your pictures (as well as those of many other competitors) so I do lose a lot of the details while still keeping the broad strokes. Anyway, moot point.
I'll be following the rest of your game with interest!
I'm not sure that the civ being managed by the AI has been that beneficial for either me or Cyne. England was never going to be able to survive a double invasion with the troops they have available and with such a small, underdeveloped empire, especially when I've just been rushing promoted knights into the cities as fast as a player could have reinforced without Engineering. This way at least they got to upgrade a bunch of archers to LBs cheaply. I think that Cyne has taken the brunt of whatever attack England did. His stack was a little chewed up, which I highly approve of.
T158
I thought about just attacking Cyne's stack. If I won my battles, which I would mostly expect to do, he would have 4-5 hitters left and his cats mostly flanked away. I decided to choose trust instead, which I may regret. His optimal play, if he wants to try to draw a line in the sand and claim some of this territory, would be to let me capture the city and then stuff all of those longbows in the city, which is on a hill. Will he do this? He has graphs and sees that I have a massive power lead (I assume, I don't have his graphs but I know my overall army is bigger), but he can't really know how my troops are positioned and may not want to take a chance that they're close, so hopefully picking a fight with me is not on his agenda. We'll see.
Because I went ahead and captured the city. I'm not strongly reinforcing it, I only have knights available and I want them to continue pressing the attack or be available to counterattack in the field if things get nasty with Cyneheard. This individual city doesn't mean much to me.
It is nice, however, when the city comes with buildings intact. Granary/forge/courthouse is perfect!
Just checking with the axe that nothing from the north is incoming. Seeing none, I'll continue to move reinforcements to frontier acquisitions. It's a healing, skeletal army to the rear.
The fighting for the turn. I sacrificed three cats on Cal's last city and whittled him down with three knights. I reinforced by galley with two more knights to have some healthy hitters to finish the job next turn. Cal did not complete a unit as the turn rolled so he had no hope of holding another turn. We were on gchat and he gave me the green light to go ahead and double move him so he wouldn't have to log in again.
I waited for AGES for Q to log in and play. At 30m left on the timer he finally logged in. I had not yet moved units in this area, trying to give him every chance to play. I had offered peace last turn and wanted to give him a chance to accept so I could move my army elsewhere. While he was logged in he initiated the diplo window and then offered ceasefire, then removed that, then offered white peace (I had requested 200g). I didn't accept it immediately because I was waiting for him to throw in the requested gold. He did raze a city from me, after all. I've rebuilt it now, but I can get the gold out of him by pillaging if he insists. Eventually he just left the window, so we remain at war. Annoying.
So I moved to pillage. I wish I had a second knight in range to raze his capital, which is defended by a LB and a warrior. If he reinforces I'll just keep pillaging cottages and resources until he chases me away. He's just goign to continue whipping longbows so his economy isn't going anywhere.
T159 (Double move!!!)
I'll play the rest of T159 later, after Q again.
It was a mercy killing to keep Cal from having to log back in. He was totally fine with this, we talked on gchat.
Ok, maybe the AI is more a hindrance than an aid to England after all. Lost production! Eww. Converting to my religion is nice, though.
Cal is taking gold to the grave! I asked if he wanted to donate it to the lurkers but he said he'd just line his coffin with the coin. So be it!
Dies. Not unexpected.
Wins.
Cal's last defender. I captured the worker with my redlined knight prior to delivering the killing blow. While it is possible, though not probable, that Cal could have logged in and played before me and I could have legitimately captured the worker without the necessity of the double move, I asked Ruff to show that he did have a unit on the galley. If he did have a unit then I'd donate him a worker from elsewhere as compensation. He showed a pike, so I sent him a worker.
The city didn't come with much to offer, but it will pay in time.
I have six knights in range of Q's capital. He has mismanaged his defense here. He could finish research on Engineering EoT. Had he left his collateral/WEs stack 1N of its current position then it could have moved to defend the capital. It is possible that he has other reserve units that can save the city. We'll see. Anyway, I'm not all that keen on razing the capital, I'd like to keep it later but I'm annoyed that Q seems interested in some kind of peace deal but won't make an offer. Maybe he's not really interested.
If he declines I'll get most of the 200g from capture gold and cottage pillages. Fine by me.
Second in land area here, but first on the victory conditions page, just ahead of OH/Fin. I'm not sure what the difference is in reporting land area between those two screens. Does anyone know?
Cyneheard removed only a couple of units. It looks to me like he is reinforcing, and perhaps fetching a settler back with him. While life would be easier if he did not have any troops on the continent, I can live with an outpost for now. I have seven knights in position to hit York and Warwick next turn. The signposts indicate the current garrison for each. Yeah, this war has been much easier than it would have been versus a real player. Whip, AI guy! Defend! At least make it look good.
1000AD. This game may finish yet. Actually, the turns are going a bit faster now that people are being eliminated. Lots of pictures this turn to commemorate the 5000th year of Pericles' rule. If you hate smileys, and why would you, this is not the post for you.
First up, an offer from Q. I had, um, requested 200g for peace. Denied! I'll get my gold the hard way. Back to this in a minute.
The AI/human-apathy war machine churns on.
Great haul on the buildings, and what's that? A settle GG! Hammer city coming right up!
Another killing blow about to land. To my opponents in the fog watching in disgust, what else can I do? Plenty of teams in the NBA are going to get cheap wins against the 76'ers this year. Blame the schedule.
Coin!
Not much else! This is my second city capture on this tile.
Last stand?
Cyneheard's war with pindicator seems to be legit, so these guys are in full Dunkirk mode. Give 'em hell, boys, and thanks for your assistance.
Back to the desolation of the Q'pital. When your defensive strategy involves soaking up attacks by surrendering workers, you're in trouble.
The only fight that really matters is the first one. The cowards lose when the alpha loses, they are encouraged when he wins. Whip ass!
Cats aren't so hot on defense, and two full strength knights remain.
MOAR COIN! Certainly better than 100g with peace.
The boys cleared every building in the city except the academy...
The boys cleared every building in the city. Now to clean up a bit.
I'm out of hitters, so this guy can survive to tell his superiors how the fight went.
Peace with dignity, no cash payment required. We'll call this war a draw. He razed a city, I razed a city.
Oxford starts next turn. Finishing the settler does not delay Oxford, it's 8t either way. I'll probably finish Printing Press and then continue saving up piles of gold to burn after Oxford completes.
Settlers inbound to fill in the gaps, and my army is almost entirely intact after three wars. I'll take it!
Stats and stuff:
Stats don't lie. Dtay is killing it. He got the snowball rolling sooner. I'll just have to make mine have a bigger base and try to catch up over a longer curve. But he's going to be fighting someone new soon, I'm almost sure of it. The game is long, and no one can say what bumps in the road he may encounter, so I'm just going to play my game and hope for the best.
Not much is new here.
Or here.
This is encouraging.
Keeping a wary eye on wetbandit. I'd hate to get caught napping and lose my foothold on his continent.
Nakor has basically ignored courthouses. His empire is super compact so he may not bother. I'm going to try for visibility to determine the best way to take him out next. If possible.
For lurker comparison to dtay or whoever else posts on this turn.
I'll keep trying to shore up the economy. Forges for hammers, courthouses for a higher slider, commerce multipliers where it matters. All that Tao, a shrine would have been nice, but I can't complain how things have turned out.
Pretty average combat results, but it feels so good.
Looking backward, at some early game goals, then looking forward:
(March 25th, 2014, 15:36)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: I suppose now is as good a time as any to list some of my goals for this game.
1. Don't die early.
2. Don't stunt growth in pursuit of goal #1.
3. Make the most out of what I have.
a. Map - It hath been generous and bountiful so far. May it continue to be the land of milk and honey. And no Jowys or otherwise aggressive for no particular reason kind of neighbors.
b. Leader - Pericles has good synergy with Russia. Don't waste it.
c. Civ - Russia, it ain't old time Cossacks, but the new Research Institute (University replacement) still pairs very nicely with PHI and I'll probably want a bunch of them anyway. And they're cheap. And a free scientist? Yeah!
4. Be the aggressor - In my previous games, I've built and teched well enough, but inevitably the conflict is not on my terms and I'm reacting rather than making my opponents react to me. Creative culture should help me with this, but I still need to take the next step and be the one sending the stack into my neighbor's face, not defending against his. When I was CRE INCA () I culturally crushed Sian with a couple of holy cities and forced him to fight me because he really didn't have another choice. But he invaded me. I'd like to be a bit more aggressive/proactive in this area this game and be the one doing the invading.
5. Have A Plan - I tend to meander without a concrete plan or goal. This is antithetical to properly using Philosophical. I'll need to plan effectively when and how to achieve targeted bulbing strategies. So long as I can sandbox, I should do fine here, but later on this may become problematic, especially when I start taking time away from the game later in the summer. I'll need to make an effort to make this work, as I typically have not utilized bulbing strategies in my games.
6. Top Ten finish - Is this realistic? I think so. Winning is a pipe dream for anyone with so many players, but there are certain teams who stand out as having a relatively good chance so long as they get decently average luck in this game: Krill/novice and Plako come immediately to mind, obviously, and then some other solid, very capable vets (Pindicator, Scooter, Old Harry/Fintourist) have a realistic chance, depending on the way the game plays out.
6a. Finish higher than Xenu. Sibling rivalry and all, I have to beat him or else learn to enjoy the inevitable taunting I'll suffer at his hands. My trump card is that I can run more sims than him because I tend to have more time. Little Tyrant, thanks for helping with this. Keep him busy.
7. Find the secret to accumulating thread spam. I like comments and lurker input, and socializing in general. I'll try to keep the thread interesting if you'll keep my thread near the top. Deal?
Quote:1. Don't die early.
Done.
Quote:2. Don't stunt growth in pursuit of goal #1.
I think I did a good job expanding in the early game, so I'll consider this as job done. Popping The Wheel from a hut certainly helped with worker micro, can't underestimate luck here, but I worked doggedly in simming out the start and I'd love to see if anyone worked out a faster opening from my start.
Quote:3. Make the most out of what I have.
This is hard to determine, but I didn't waste a whole lot in the early game.
Quote:a. Map - It hath been generous and bountiful so far. May it continue to be the land of milk and honey. And no Jowys or otherwise aggressive for no particular reason kind of neighbors.
The map was very good to me and I think I've used the map strongly in my favor. Wars have been on my terms and I beat the pants off Cal in the expansion phase. I grabbed a good number of huts (with good luck too) and I basically won the neighbor lottery (no offense taken, I hope). No plako, novice/Krill, dtay, etc., and only one front to defend in the early game. A perfect recipe for a strong start.
Quote:b. Leader - Pericles has good synergy with Russia. Don't waste it.
I didn't win Liberalism, which with this setup is a bit of a gaffe. I wasted time getting to Guilds and then to Liberalism after. I'm not sure how close I actually was to winning Liberalism when it comes right down to it, less than five turns IIRC, but if I had skipped Music I possibly could have gotten here first. If I had skipped Aesthetics/Literature/Music, I certainly would have. I don't have a very early Oxford, but I do have a lot of cities, so my strategy has gone a bit off the assumed path for Pericles. You want a lean economy with high efficiency for a high slider to take advantage of earlier Universities Research Institutes and an early-ish Astronomy for cheap, CRE Observatories. I haven't really done that, but I'm trying to make up for it. But you can clearly see where dtay has grown his economy sooner after expansion, so I could probably have done better in this area. That said, Dtay had good early game, growth-focused traits. I have good mid-game traits. He got cheap granaries where I got cheap RIs. If he hadn't had a lead at this point he probably wouldn't win in the end. Tough to say.
Quote:c. Civ - Russia, it ain't old time Cossacks, but the new Research Institute (University replacement) still pairs very nicely with PHI and I'll probably want a bunch of them anyway. And they're cheap. And a free scientist? Yeah!
I'll enjoy the handful of free beakers that the extra GS will provide in these cities, but mostly this is just useful in my NE city for another 15GPP/turn. That's pretty good. Not as good as Mali bonus wealth, but I'll take it. I can't wait to get to Cossacks. Q/nakor, I'm looking at you!
Quote:4. Be the aggressor - In my previous games, I've built and teched well enough, but inevitably the conflict is not on my terms and I'm reacting rather than making my opponents react to me. Creative culture should help me with this, but I still need to take the next step and be the one sending the stack into my neighbor's face, not defending against his. When I was CRE INCA () I culturally crushed Sian with a couple of holy cities and forced him to fight me because he really didn't have another choice. But he invaded me. I'd like to be a bit more aggressive/proactive in this area this game and be the one doing the invading.
I'd say I've been successful here. My second kill will come next turn. It's not like taking Clayton Kershaw deep, but a home run is a home run, even at altitude when it's a bit easier to go deep. I'm pleased with my performance this area. No big mistakes is all I needed and I did fine.
Quote:5. Have A Plan - I tend to meander without a concrete plan or goal. This is antithetical to properly using Philosophical. I'll need to plan effectively when and how to achieve targeted bulbing strategies. So long as I can sandbox, I should do fine here, but later on this may become problematic, especially when I start taking time away from the game later in the summer. I'll need to make an effort to make this work, as I typically have not utilized bulbing strategies in my games.
I had a plan for a Tao shrine on the really big map and it failed spectacularly. But I'm glad I have the Statue of Zeus, so who knows. The best laid plans of mice and men, I suppose. I bulbed here and there in a general direction, but the best use of the GPP on this map with so many cities is going to be extra golden ages. I've fired several already, and have already produced 11 GP by T160. My NE city has to be the best in the game. Not necessarily in terms of food, but absolutely in terms of GPP production. I built Parthenon to deny it to Krill/novice, but I like getting the benefit too.
Quote:6. Top Ten finish - Is this realistic? I think so. Winning is a pipe dream for anyone with so many players, but there are certain teams who stand out as having a relatively good chance so long as they get decently average luck in this game: Krill/novice and Plako come immediately to mind, obviously, and then some other solid, very capable vets (Pindicator, Scooter, Old Harry/Fintourist) have a realistic chance, depending on the way the game plays out.
I'm far exceeding my own expectations. A top ten finish at this point would be a disappointment. If I don't' finish top three then I've made a mistake somewhere. Maybe top four, as Krill/novice are going to be there at the end. Right now, it's Dtay, me (have to be optimistic, and I still have an army), OH/Fin, novice/Krill.
Quote:6a. Finish higher than Xenu. Sibling rivalry and all, I have to beat him or else learn to enjoy the inevitable taunting I'll suffer at his hands. My trump card is that I can run more sims than him because I tend to have more time. Little Tyrant, thanks for helping with this. Keep him busy.
Plako is eating him, with plenty of help from eliminated and resurrected Cheater Hater. I'm going to win this one for sure!
Quote:7. Find the secret to accumulating thread spam. I like comments and lurker input, and socializing in general. I'll try to keep the thread interesting if you'll keep my thread near the top. Deal?
Not so easy in this game. Thread spam is hard to come by.
Thanks for the comments. Mardoc, I really wanted to prevent OH/Fin from getting that city. I want to have just a little warning about a possible incoming attack. I don't really think it is coming anytime soon, not until naval mobility increases substantially (and not just Astronomy), but it's good to be prepared. They can live with my island intrusion better than I can live with theirs because the proximate cities for me are core. For them, they're conquests. Anyway, I'm glad I could help you out.
While I'm here, I'm going to be out of town at a conference Wednesday through Friday of next week. If I can manage to get a sub lined up before I go, that would be awesome. Are any of you wonderful lurkers interested in taking this sporty civ out for a test ride? I should have wrapped up all active wars by then for sure, and enforced peace would still be in effect to protect against a Q invasion. Should be smooth sailing, unless wetbandit gets frisky. If anyone is interested, let me know. Thanks!!!
I think that Cyne has taken the brunt of whatever attack England did. His stack was a little chewed up, which I highly approve of. 
Lots of pictures this turn to commemorate the 5000th year of Pericles' rule. If you hate smileys, and why would you, this is not the post for you. 
Hammer city coming right up!
) I culturally crushed Sian with a couple of holy cities and forced him to fight me because he really didn't have another choice. But he invaded me. I'd like to be a bit more aggressive/proactive in this area this game and be the one doing the invading. 
