[SPOILER] - Suboptimal finds trees, still seeks forest

[CFCJesterFool]

You don't lose the production on units which have no strategic resource requirement.

[suboptimal]

They'll start archers, then. However, Hasselback could finish its Campus in three turns (though it's only +1 at present). I know military is a priority but I do wonder if sneaking in 2-3 turns of infrastructure here might not be a bad idea. Likewise 2 turns of infrastructure at Dauphinoise would complete 1/3 the Commercial Hub (15 base with 5% yield bonus and 40% bonus gets ~44/122 on the CH).

The next settler in Mashed will take 7 turns. I'll complete that unit and then move forward with the Temple of Artemis for the housing and food. That may give me time to farm the wheat and grassland at the new city before chopping for the ToA.

[suboptimal]

Turn 88

Lots going on and lots to do this turn. Defensive Tactics is finished, all cities have completed their current builds. Pindicator has moved the horseman back into Wealth of Nations and there’s an archer to the southwest. The open swordsman has been attacked twice. Unmet Player has built the the Temple of Artemis, gonna need another plan for housing, likely a builder for the sea resources at Mashed. What did I say last turn?

I did have a close call with a volcano – the one my eastern archer is near just erupted. The good news is that I was two tiles away from said eruption. The other good news is that it shouldn’t erupt again in the next few turns so I can skirt by it to the south.

Yeah, well, to that. It erupted, though it was a minor one and my archer over there is unscathed. Right. Policy time: out with the old (Maneuver, Equestrian Orders), in with the new (Strategos, Veterancy). Start Feudalism and change tech to Machinery (done next turn with a pile of overflow; hopefully that gets Apprenticeship to one turn). Pingala gets the Grants promotion and we’ll get 6 GGP next turn. I don’t know how much the next general will cost because Cornflakes is after us in the turn order and is showing 55/60 on the admiral. I finish off the civ-wide stuff by putting my envoy into Valetta. Time for the cities...first up...




I go back and forth between a farm and a mine on that 31 volcanic soil tile. I need five ore farms for Feudalism. I’ll get two out of the next city being placed. I decide to put a farm down as that gets me to four. I think what I’ll do is farm the 3 volcanic soil tile next and use the last builder charge on the iron after I purchase the tile. That gets me 6 farms without needing to build a builder for that purpose. With all of the food that will be pouring in I start a granary. I’ll need another builder up here in order to get the forest chopped for the placement of the Commercial Hub. I’ll buy the wines in the new city and swap back and forth as needed. With the rapid pop growth here, though, I don’t need the monument build immediately.

Mashed starts a settler (7 turns to complete) and sends the new one to the nearby location to found in three more turns. The builder at the new city will farm the wheat, farm the open grassland and then I’ll buy and plantation the wines. The tile will be swapped over to Gnocchi until it claims the iron and the 22 tile, at which point I’ll swap it back to the new city. Dauphinoise shifts the citizen from the unmined diamonds to the PFH and starts an archer. Hasselback starts an archer and repairs the mine. Horseman relocates next to Fondant. That city’s existing archer moves to the Encampment and I move the new archer to the jungle hill for the time being. The city starts building the Encampment and will get a 50% bonus to both the Encampment and the barracks. I’ve also realized the warrior/iron timing thing won’t work out – I won’t have the gold to upgrade the warrior immediately when I have enough iron. Time for Khmer.

Do the archer dance at Res Publica, the city is empty. Interesting, though I need to remember about the three units coming up from the south. At Wealth of Nations:




That makes the horseman choice interesting, to say the least. The walls can still come down this turn but I’ll likely lose the eastern swordsman to a horseman attack by Pindicator on his next turn. I unlink the sword and ram and attack the city with the eastern sword, doing 19 points of wall damage. The swordsman is also dropped to 3 health by this attack, though it’s earned a promotion in the process. Other swordsman attacks for 29 wall damage. The city garrison has taken 25 damage. I move the ram to the jungle sword’s position. I can’t move Maris Piper up to attack. Western Horseman moves up, reveals an unpromoted warrior in the southwest tile and I attack the city for 4 wall damage and 25 garrison damage (interesting). Yukon Gold moves up in support. Walls are at 17/100 and the garrison is currently 150/200 but will heal up to 170. The western swordsman currently defends against ranged attacks at a 39 (attack CS 25) and melee attacks at 47. Pindicator will have a choice here – kill the redlined swordsman or try to kill the swordsman covering the ram. I don’t think he can do the latter and the former will let me take the city a bit faster.




The archer moves along the volcano. There are some good yields over here but hopefully I’m not running into a dead end:




Once the six farms are down I’ll complete Feudalism, remove Veterancy and slot Feudal Contract and Serfdom. That will cost me 2 per turn in the short term but it’ll let me get a few builders out of Mashed (4 turns per builder right now). I’d want to build at least two, maybe three, then do a policy swap to get Colonization in for three more settlers – one for the Dauph Coast location, one for the center Aqueduct location and one for the area east of Gnocchi. We have one additional location (the coast north of Hasselback) but I need to get that defogged completely before making a decision there.

That will give me enough builder charges in my core to get a number of things out of the way. At Mashed that’s fishing boats on the turtles and pearls, a chop-and-mine into a settler and a mine at the nearby city. At Duaphinoise that’s a diamond mine, chop-and-mine the PFH (production into the Commercial Hub) and a pasture and rice farm at Fondant. Hasselback will get two volcanic soil mines, maybe a forest chop at Dauphinoise (complete the Commercial Hub), a mine at Fondant (it’s claiming a grassland hill in 14 turns) and then hold it for repairs at the nearby volcano (or for a tile expansion elsewhere).

At some point I need to get cities going on district build outs instead of military. Hopefully a breakthrough at Wealth of Nations and some crossbows down the Khmer gullet will let me do that. The new cities will focus on infrastructure and districts in the meantime. Walls everywhere might also be a good idea at some point since Australia will likely come calling. They’d slow Alhambram down a little bit (in theory).

For techs I’m looking at going through Astrology, Celestial Navigation and Sailing next in order to backfill the tree and get Harbors and fishing boats available. After that I think Construction en route to Military Engineering.

Do we want to take Nazca?




It could be done easily with a horseman and archer (from Res Publica). The city has a granary and a monument and the Holy Site is complete with a Shrine. We’d be too far back in the race for a religion (3 founded, two left, two people already ahead of us) but it’d be some faith output. The alternative would be suzerainty, buy the flat desert tile (10-15 turns from now when we have builders) and put in Nazca Lines at Dauphinoise for +6 per turn. We could gradually, over time, spam that desert with them and generate enough faith to buy units with the Grandmaster’s Chapel when we get there.

[CFCJesterFool]

I think maybe keep Nazca around? Hard to say but depends on whether we can gain suzerain status by completing quests or not. We need to reserve envoys for Kabul. Don't want Alhambram getting double experience on his soon to be musketman (if he even bothers building military.) If we can get cities east of WoN then having Nazca alive becomes very useful and might warrant non-quest envoys.

[Banzailizard]

Kill Naz a but only after you have dealt with Pin. It's not a priority.

[suboptimal]

Turn 89

Just like the last assault on Wealth of Nations save opening has become a mix of trepidation and excitement. Will I make a breakthrough? Am I totally screwed? Well, notifications do not paint a pleasant picture. I’ve lost both the redlined swordsman and the southern horseman at Wealth of Nations:




The good news is that the walls can come down and Pindicator will suffer some losses on his side. You’ll also notice that I have a diplomatic notification. The tooltip says its from Kaiser he’s come offering a Declaration of Friendship. Still haven’t see a sign of a single unit of his. Back to these in a bit, though.

Machinery has completed and I’ve got 248 in hand. Somewhere along the line they changed the upgrade cost formula. I was expecting to pay 170 for the upgrade under the formulas I had but the game is showing me the cost as 230. Looks like the multiplier in the formula got changed from 0.75 to 1.00 and I missed that bit along the way. That makes building these things even more important now. I upgrade the archer, bringing my total to 18. That crossbow will make its way down towards Maris Piper starting next turn. The iron buy at Gnocchi will be in 4 turns for 90 or so.

Speaking of Gnocchi I use the chariot to defog the remaining part of the apparent northern passage and find that it is clear all the way through. Good to know. Builder puts down a second farm. Mashed’s settler moves NE and Hasselback’s builder puts down a farm. That gets the city some extra housing and it will now grow in 11 turns. Its first crossbow is due in 6 turns, Duaphinoise is due in four turns. I decide to delay the cheap techs and start putting turns into Construction. This will prevent the tile buy costs at Gnocchi and the new city from going up for the time being. In other news, Cornflakes grabbed an Admiral and the cost stayed at 60. Alhambram is going to get Boudica next turn and I’ll get the next Great General in...5 turns (currently 35/60). In four turns I’ll be 1 point short of getting the general outright. I would have the faith to cover that one point (it’d be 160 if my formula’s correct) but I could just wait the turn. Does a patronized Great Person have the ability to move on the turn they’re bought or are they like units and have no movement until the following turn? If they have no movement then the patronage just wastes faith.

Down at Res Publica I do the archer shuffle, the city remains empty. The eastern archer continues picking its way past the volcano and will need to turn back northwest:




All of that forest to the southwest is bound by cliffs, so this is some sort of peninsula. The path to the northwest is clear, though, and I’ll have an archer at Conquest of Paradise’s eastern border in two turns.

Call up the diplo screen and Kaiser’s offer. I take it because he’s over there, I’m over here and we’re both low on the totem pole. I check out the deal screen. He’s got citrus, 6 cities, 82 gold on hand, 50 each of horse and iron and DoF’s with me, Alhambram and Unmet Player. He’s also been denounced by Unmet Player.

Now for Wealth of Nations...Horseman at Fondant continues down the valley. I’m sending it straight down towards the jungle. The archer and warrior swap places. I’m going to move the warrior into the Encampment for a possible (eventual) upgrade when is available. Yukon Gold can just about kill the Khmer warrior outright and might do so on a good roll. Take the shot and...it dies from 59 points of damage. Yukon Gold is 11 points from its next promotion. Maris Piper can kill the horseman outright and shoots, earning 8 XP. Ten more for the double shot promotion.

The swordsman can take down the city walls. This will leave it at an expected 46 damage. The archers may or may not be able to kill it. If they fail I’d be able to retreat. Likewise, the horseman could move in and give Pindicator a choice as to where he wants to send his ranged attacks. Swordsman attacks, taking down the walls and doing 31 points to the garrison. The sword suffered lower than expected damage (20 instead of 25) and should be OK. Battering ram moves northwest. With the walls gone the city garrison loses the wall defense bonus (+3) and is now at a 23 strength. The horseman moves in and attacks, dealing 44, taking 19 and earning a promotion.

The question now is what else will be coming up from the south? The southern archer has a support bonus of +6, so there are units to the SE and SW. Pindicator has about 100 milpower of units currently unaccounted for – 50 in the two archers at WoN, 65 in the warriors and archer that were near Art of War and just lost a warrior and a horseman, each with about 50 points of damage remaining (call that 15 + 32 = 47). There’s likey 40-50 in the fog, maybe 60 if one of them is a horseman.

My current plan is to raze the city and resettle. Are there any reasons why this is a bad idea and the primary option should be to attempt to hold the city despite any loyalty issues? If this is the better option how do we combat the loyalty issues?

Resume Apprenticeship, that’ll complete next turn and boost production from mines. After that I’ll do Sailing and then start putting a few turns into Construction. That’ll keep my tile purchase costs from going up for the time being as completing three techs or one civic will increase costs.

Hasselback’s trade route to Mashed will end in 3-4 turns. I’ll likely shift the trader to Fondant and run the trader up to Mashed from there. The +3+2 is now more useful at Fondant than Hasselback.

With the current settler being built is it better to send it to Wealth of Nations (13 turns to settle) or send it to the central location (7 turns to settle), with the settler after that? If the Great General stays at 60 points I can swap out Strategos for Colonization when Feudalism completes, cutting the fourth settler build to 6 turns. In that case we’d be settling both locations simultaneously, assuming I can take over Conquest of Paradise to eliminate the loyalty issues in the next 19 turns.

[CFCJesterFool]

If you faith buy a great person, the great person has no movement (unlike naturally recruited great people.) The only reason to faith buy the Great General is if someone else could possibly purchase or faith buy it. Not likely?

Raze WoN. Don't risk Pindicator's religion spreading to WoN and then losing the entire army. Loyalty isn't the problem. Crusade is the problem.

Settle the closer spots first. Maybe third settler can go resettle WoN. It would only take one missionary spread to convert a size one city. Pindicator's army needs to be eliminated before considering settling near his Holy city.

[suboptimal]

With vacation and everything going on I had forgotten about crusade. Thanks for the reminder.

I can't settle a new city near the Wealth of Nations site without first taking control of Conquest of Paradise - the loyalty pressure is too strong to do otherwise. If the city falls I'll get to see what the loyalty pressures look like in the area.

[suboptimal]

Turn 90

Apprencticeship is done. Pindicator killed the horseman at Wealth of Nations (with another horseman). Alhambram has claimed Boudica. No sign of a military buildup yet. On deck is Sun Tzu, 4 turns out. We’ve met Archduke. Where? Hasselback, but no unit visible, likely a galley. Let’s check out the game leader. He’s got a DoF with Alhambram and denounced Kaiser. He’s also the suzerain at Valetta. The deal screen:




He’s got ten cities and a great work (Iliad). 90, 46 and 364 milpower. Heh. I’d say he’s the front runner but the other people on his land mass may be able to keep him in check. Kaiser has also come looking for a deal:




Ten turns of horses for 30 turns of wines. Hmm...not a good deal but I take it as it theoretically costs me less (a resource I’m not really using) vs. something he might need (strategic resource). It’d also let me build consecutive two horsemen at either Hasselback or Dauphinoise.

Change research to Sailing. Up at Gnocchi the chariot starts to head south as I’ll want it for fogbusting & escorting the next settler out. Settler at Mashed advances into the open grassland, sees nothing dangerous across the river and moves to the settlement location. Buider at Gnocchi returns to the city center. The city is going wines-first, my best guess is because of the higher yield. I’ll definitely need to buy the iron here if I want it quicker. Do the archer jog at Res Publica, city is still empty. Archer approaching Conquest of Paradise moves westwards, reveals a Campus (+4 adjacency, no library).




I can be on it next turn and pillage it the turn after for some .

Now for the main event:




OK….that second horseman is a pain in the rear end. Maris Piper can’t kill it outright, nor can the swordsman. If I were to kill it with both units the swordsman will die. On the other hand the horseman in the city creates a larger problem as it raises the garrison strength up a bit (and can heal). Let’s see….kill the horseman, lose the swordsman. Shoot the horseman, risk a stronger garrison. The sword could attack the city, averaging about 43 points of damage, which is two turns of healing. It’s take 20 in the process, leaving it with 31. It’d survive a horse attack or an archer attack, but not both. I’d prefer to keep that unit around but really want to kill the horseman. I also can’t swap in Red Pontiac as it’d be toast (horse + 2 archers would kill it). Maris Piper shoots the horseman for 35 damage. It’s got somewhere between 26 and 35 points of damage left. I fortify the swordsman in place. That should let it survive whatever Pindicator throws at it next turn. Horseman, crossbowman and warrior at Fondant all move south. Crossbow is supporting Maris Piper – if the horseman attacks I’d get to promote next turn.

Next turn the crossbow will move to the wheat NE of the city to start shooting at it. I’ll need to figure out how to get 2XP for Maris Piper as well. That next promotion will be a big one.

I decide to start bringing the horseman at Res Publica around the north of the city’s borders. Some pressure from the west might help at Wealth of Nations, where my forces are getting a little thin. I also move the battering ram out of Khmer territory for the time being.

Looking at the situation I think the iron buy at Gnocchi will need to wait. The tile buy is 90 but a sword upgrade is 110. I think the latter is more important. The question then becomes what to do with the builder’s last charge? I pasture the sheep or chop out the tundra forest into a monument, lock in the Commercial Hub and complete the monument the following turn before resuming the granary build. I’m leaning towards the latter. I’ll be able to use the builder at the new city to put down two farms, wait for the wines to be taken and then put down a plantation there (the plantation is also worth +1 once Feudalism completes, which will help the new city grow a bit faster).

[Banzailizard]

What would you get if you pillaged Pin's campus there? It might be worth something and help you temporarily close the gap with Al and AD.