[PB25-SPOILERS] The Lunacy of the Reign of HAK Continues

[MindyMcCready]

Last comment before I get to work:
-Drill is not a very useful promotion. Because of the high use of mounted units in MP, it is often a completely wasted promotion. C1 is never wasted (even if non-effective) however and more effective against a single unit than D1. So don't get too attached to that promo. The CG on an archer is way, way ahead of course.

[HitAnyKey]

Last comment before I get to work:
-Drill is not a very useful promotion. Because of the high use of mounted units in MP, it is often a completely wasted promotion. C1 is never wasted (even if non-effective) however and more effective against a single unit than D1. So don't get too attached to that promo. The CG on an archer is way, way ahead of course.

Yeah, this was the Archer that I did a coin-flip tossup kind of between grabbing D1 or C1 when I desperately needed the archer to kill an incoming barb warrior back in the early game. I would have preferred to keep it's promotion to use for CG, but didn't want to take the chance of not giving the archer some sort of attacking promo when going against that barb. Any future Archers will of course be getting CG, this one will likely get promo'd to CG before any attack starts. Suppose I could give it CG now. Because of that hill Grimace has in his borders, I'm 99% sure he can see into the city. So I guess we may as well show off our units in a promoted state of defense to deter him from even thinking about attacking.

Ok, so that looks reasonable for now. I do want to reiterate that if Grimace has a G2 or G3s 3N3E of Sore he can move them right next to the city. If he plays after you, you will not get a chance to whip walls or an axe. I know that I've probably pointed this out a couple of times, I'm just making sure that you've understood this risk. We're still ok as you've said by virtue of sheer numbers relative to the number of G3's Grimace could have but without axes or walls we'd be sacrificing units to buy time.

Doh! Keep forgetting about the G2 double movement on hills. So yes, he can stick his Gallic Warriors on that hill in the shadows and then dump them next to the city.

Equal resource trades is all I'm suggesting. I don't really like it but players have been doing the gold as a numbering system as well. It's actually funny watching how some of these things are interpreted. We also don't have currency yet, so equal resource trades is all we can work with.

When I log in later to finish the turn, I'll see if I have an equal trade that I can send to Borsche and also see if I can find one that I can send to Elkad.

What happened to 3S of Anxious? That's still my preferred destination. If we have a successful miltiary campaign we'll have surplus miltiary in the area. If we have to back off,...well we'll still have decent miltiary + workers in the area. Disasterous RNG luck of course means that we can't afford that location quite yet or ever.

The hill NW of the barb city should only be planted after the barb city is captured so that it can work the deer.

The 2S of Cows,..well that's backfill and low urgency if we can capture the barb city. It's still a decent choice because of the workers in the area however. I don't object to this spot, but think that it's more important to get 3S of Anxious up and running to respond to invasion.

What about 3S1W of Sore? Pass the corn + marble over for a very fast start up. A spring board for the island as well. This would get started much faster then 2S of cows,...unless 2S of cows can work the cows immediately (didn't check).

Good point on the south of Anxious spot, since we would have military in the area. And getting some more of that territory before Borsche can do so would also be good. Biggest reason I was thinking of the other spots was to have enough cities within decent range of Grimace if needed any of them to churn out support.
The 2S1W of Sore is also one I was considering. Not sure why I didn't mention it.
When I log back in I'll be able to doublecheck, but I think the borders of Stressed will expand just in time for a city 2S of cows to be able to work them immediately.

When I log back in, I think I'll also whip the Chariot out of Adventurous so that I can get that 2nd chariot over to Anxious asap. I was hoping to get that city growing decently, and to not have to whip until it had it's Granary because that's inefficient. But getting that unit out right away might just be better. I'd then probably put the whip overflow into a Worker before having the city go back to finishing it's Granary.
I've been trying to rebuild my sandbox, but it's seeming to be impossible. I no longer remember at all what tiles I've had the various cities working the past handful of turns. My last sandbox is as of T78 and from then until now, I can't get the sandbox to match up.

[MindyMcCready]

Make sure that you have a few extra beakers to complete Math. I've seen in other games that Seven for example didn't get his tech due to some bug. We'd miss out on the extra hammers if we missed by 1 beaker.

I'm rethinking the value of 2S1W of Sore. That city will need a garrison,...and one that could defend against G3's from a galley. Whereas 2S of cows wouldn't require a real garrions (assuming that we already have an axe on the way to capture barb city AND that barb city is guarded only by warriors. It is on a hill however,...so we could stick archers in there and they'd be strong defenders against the amphibious penalty.

But we'd see it coming from our view from Sore,....but it creates a naval forkable location between Sore & said city. Being forked by G3's will not be fun.

Yep, I don't like it. Sorry for thining out loud. We need cities that require low military requirements and 2S of cows is definately that city.

My preferred city order:
1. 3S of Anxious (depending what happens with GJ)
2. 5S of Happy if barb city captured
3. 2S of Cows (#2 if barb city not captured)
4. 3S1W of Sore, especially if we feel that we have or can achieve naval dominance.

[HitAnyKey]

Logged in to start getting details about all my cities to try to start an attempt at rebuilding a sandbox, and noticed GJ settled another city. He at least decided to not be insanely aggressive (yet) by settling right up against me to take the other stone. Also means he'll be in conflict with Commodore before Commodore can advance down along that island towards me. Basically this all means I won't have Stone, but at least if I can boot GJ off the continent in the west, that will help a bit.

[MindyMcCready]

You know what would be fun. Planting 3E of Uptown Warriors and stealing his corn. :LOL:

Oh, yeah,...and then offer him clams for clams.

The workboard from Happy is probably a waste since GJ will probably try to tear it up. Maybe we want to delay that WB and get a galley first? Just an idea.

That axe that we have by Master Commodore isn't gaining us any additional visibility that we don't have from culture. We could consider moving him 1E in case Grimace gets any smart ideas about coming from the other direction. G3's don't matter too much to a forested axe across the river.

[HitAnyKey]

Running off for a couple hours, but quickly played the turn to get the new images:

And just like that we are now #5 in Power and Sleepy gets back into the Top 5.

[HitAnyKey]

So....while I was logged in trying to get some more details to attempt the sandbox again, Borsche logged in and settled a city on our continent.....making our spot no longer viable.



Now the question is...do we settle on the new spot I have marked? It would butt right up against his borders, but at least it wouldn't be stealing a 2nd ring resource like Joey did to us. And if I eliminate Joey's city and then leave that area empty, he might leave our city alone for now. Basically, it's looking like we won't get any Stone in this game during a time when it's useful, whereas I'm betting everyone else will.

[MindyMcCready]

Some thoughts during the calm before the storm.

1. Commodore's power is disturbing. It's probably explained as dog pile insurance but I'm a little nervous that it could be more than that. I'm hoping that DTay makes him wait until Knights since he could completely ruin our game by breaking our chokepoint too early.

2. Grimace looks to be holding off on an immediate G3 attack and his window for an effective attack is starting to close. He should be fully discouraged once we get walls + a pair of axes. His next logical move would be to use his UU to pick on someone without strong chokepoints or sail to our south east islands. Our mid term plan should be to focus on building up our naval capacity (not units yet, just build capacity) and then make a sweeping move to take that island and further reduce him. If/when we make this move it must be while holding a strong naval advantage since we do not want to be forked by G3s.

3. Assuming that the next couple of turns vs GJ go well,...since Borsche planted there doesn't that make the GJ block off (1W of Burning Spears) site the new best? Shared corn, rice and stone?

4. Related to that I was thinking about the spot 1SW of Burning Spears for all of the same benefits but with a lighthouse for those 2 lake tiles. Further to that,...I was separately considering the nuclear fit that I would have if GJ planted across from our capital. It is quite possible that Borsche will have a similar nuclear fit if we planted SW of Burning Spears. Extra food from lakes + extra security from GJ (not next to hills) minus risk of meltdown from Borsche.

5. The positive: if we can successfully nab that Borsche city post size2 then Borsche might be doing us a favour since I had thought that his culture from capital would make it otherwise impossible for us to plant there.

Borsche options:
Early Attack: If we can take down GJ at low cost, we'll have 5 units in the area plus worker support to pay a visit to Borsche. That hill 2S1W of Anxious is invisible given those forests and so we could have a small stack of units/chariots appear say 2N1E of his city. He'd have only 1T to react. There's a big difference between settling on someone else's landmass and doing so in a protected way. 2 galley trips = settler + worker + 2 defenders. Setting him back early could be very much like a stitch in time.

Catapults: Wait, let him develop that land and then try to take it with catapults. Our next techs are presumably Currency, COL, COnstruction in that order if we think that we can afford it. Home turf advantage with fortified chokepoints will allow us to concentrate our military to achieve this. If he doesn't have HA then they'll be no way that he could stop a determined attack with a home turf advantage.

Currency is very good for us with our our 1/2 price +3 happy markets so we might not need another economic tech right away. So catapults could make an appearace sooner. Also, when Borsche expands to a second or third city on our landmass is when his units per city will be stretched a little thin so we should be watching for opportunities. Sub options include getting swords and/or HA.

A CR1 sword would have odds (barely) on a C1 axe on a hill assuming no culture and no fortify. Players will generally not have much fortify on their axes since their often treated as zone defenders.

Option 3: Do nothing. Let him have 3 cities.

Our efforts in landing those 2 chokepoints should allow us to either:
A. Farmer's gambit
B. Concentrate our miltiary to achieve objectives.
C. Really roll the dice and do both.

Lastly: Do we have an axe heading to the barb city yet? This will be a really huge boost for us and is well worth any whip. Axe = power = nobody attacking us = extra city all for only 35H. Given the standard 3 warriors it might take more than 3T to take that city so we can start before it hits size2.

REX, REX, REX, KILL, KILL, KILL. That's all I'm asking for.:LOL:

[MindyMcCready]

Now the question is...do we settle on the new spot I have marked?

Production wise, that city is not bad for us to plant as an alternative. But getting there second means that we're going to have trouble defending it. 3S of Anxious was a very important site for us really.

But to my main point:
If you were Borsche, where would your next city go? Probably that exact spot? Now look 2N1E of his current city,...a perfect forking location from which we'll be able to see into both cities and from which neither city will be able to reinforce itself without sitting on flatland.

So with it being hard for us to defend and easy for us to fork,...I'm leaning towards shutting GJ out; settling the rest of our free lands; teching Currency then Construction and relieving him of his newly developed for us cities.

We'll revisit after the showdown with GJ, but right now I'd like to see the settler shut GJ out.

[HitAnyKey]

Production wise, that city is not bad for us to plant as an alternative. But getting there second means that we're going to have trouble defending it. 3S of Anxious was a very important site for us really.

But to my main point:
If you were Borsche, where would your next city go? Probably that exact spot? Now look 2N1E of his current city,...a perfect forking location from which we'll be able to see into both cities and from which neither city will be able to reinforce itself without sitting on flatland.

So with it being hard for us to defend and easy for us to fork,...I'm leaning towards shutting GJ out; settling the rest of our free lands; teching Currency then Construction and relieving him of his newly developed for us cities.

We'll revisit after the showdown with GJ, but right now I'd like to see the settler shut GJ out.

I'm also liking the 1W of Burning Spears better and better as well. And it all starts next turn...



Everything is in position and I just whipped the Axe in Anxious. Next turn the workers move to Wine and road. Shock Axe currently in Anxious, along with the new Axe it will be producing, and the two Chariots all move next to GJ's city on Corn. Axe currently on Cow moves into Anxious as the new defender.
Obviously I'll do it piecemeal to start. Workers will make road. I'll declare, move 1 Axe to confirm what he has for defense. Then move in whatever else is needed to hopefully take the city on the following turn. With any luck it has not yet grown, so can't whip anything, since I'll end up being first in the turn order I'm sure.
I'll add other updates for this turn in another post. Just wanted to get this part out there since I see you are around right now.

Btw, lurkers....if GJ does end up playing before me next turn, it is still ok to attack right? Even though this turn I played before him, if the turn rolls overnight he might get in his next turn before I can log in tomorrow. Really only after I declare to we truly have to institute the turn split. Which hopefully will only last until the turn after I hopefully raze the city and offer peace to him...unless he rages out on me.