Mod for Caster of Magic for Windows: More Stuff

[jhsidi]

Sorry no, I didn't save a copy of the game with the two gnome wizards. In my current game I've just broken into Myrror and no sign of them yet, but we'll see.

Here are a couple more things I've noticed in this session:
- Teleport is a bit buggy. When I cast it on my summoned unit, I had to move 1 space normally before the next moved allowed a teleport. When I cast it on my hero, however, the hero became a permanently teleporting unit (Fang the Draconian). At least part of this should be replicable since I don't think I've had a totally normal casting of teleport yet.
- I get hiring offers from mercenaries from Myrror races long before a tower is broken. Not sure if that's a bug, but IIRC it's not allowed in base CoM. The hiring offers are always from the new races (Draugr and Bug so far).
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- I'm trying Bookworm out. After banishing a wizard, I got 1 chaos book, but the wizard only had sorcery and life books. There was no message after the battle about it either.
- I also mysteriously picked up the Channeler retort! I believe this either came from banishing the wizard OR from the Retreat spell, which I cast on (I think) the turn after I banished him. Can't be sure now but I can probably find the autosave from before banishing him if you need.

As far as the Draugr thing I don't really get the argument that it's just theory that Draugr are overpowered when a unit of 0 XP bowmen can do 16+ damage in a single attack and additionally raise the unit as undead. I'll try taking the mummies for a spin to prove it out though -- I'll place a bet that they can trivially defeat Rare units.

[jhsidi]

Sorry no, I didn't save a copy of the game with the two gnome wizards. In my current game I've just broken into Myrror and no sign of them yet, but we'll see.

Here are a couple more things I've noticed in this session:
- Teleport is a bit buggy. When I cast it on my summoned unit, I had to move 1 space normally before the next moved allowed a teleport. When I cast it on my hero, however, the hero became a permanently teleporting unit (Fang the Draconian). Haven't had a fully normal result from casting it yet although I've been hesitant to try again after the hero.
- I get hiring offers from mercenaries from Myrror races long before a tower is broken. Not sure if that's a bug, but IIRC it's not allowed in base CoM. The hiring offers are always from the new races (Draugr and Bug so far) so maybe a flag isn't set on them.
- I'm trying Bookworm out. After banishing a wizard, I got 1 chaos book, but the wizard only had sorcery and life books. There was no message after the battle about it either.
- I also mysteriously picked up the Channeler retort! I believe this either came from banishing the wizard OR from the Retreat spell, which I cast on (I think) the turn after I banished him. But when I loaded an earlier save and cast Retreat I didn't get the retort that time..
- Final note on Bookworm, I previously advocated for this as a feature but giving the book out for a banishment actually feels too easy, on reflection. Even on the highest difficulty settings I can snipe some of the wizards without too much trouble, whereas a full defeat is usually pretty challenging. Maybe a separate setting for Bookworm (Banish) and Bookworm (Defeat)?

As far as the Draugr thing I don't really get the argument that it's just theory that Draugr are overpowered when a unit of 0 XP bowmen can do 16+ damage in a single attack and additionally raise the unit as undead. I'll try taking the mummies for a spin to prove it out though -- I'll place a bet that they can trivially defeat Rare units.

[jhsidi]

OK, here's my log of some combat encounters with mummies. This is all over about 12 turns -- flying + 3 moves sure is convenient. I went with pure Life because obviously that's the play when you receive all the benefits of Death for free. Of course mummies are "normal" units so I can throw heroism and discipline on them, which brings their stats quite close to what wraiths have.

2 mummies vs 2 giant spiders + 3 awakened trees
Result: 0 HP lost, trees raised as undead

4 mummies vs 2 cockatrices + 2 earth elementals (node battle, no spells cast)
Result: a bit of damage on the mummies, all enemies raised as undead

2 mummies vs 4 phantom beast + 3 phantom warrior (node battle)
Result: all enemies killed but it took 2 turns; no problem, since the mummies are flying

4 mummies vs 5 giant spiders (node battle)
Result: 2 mummies lost, 2 spiders raised as undead... tough one, but only because the spiders have 11 resistance in a node and could prevent the mummies from summoning for a couple turns

4 mummies vs 2 lobsters + 4 phantom warriors (node battle)
Result: 0 HP lost, lobsters raised as undead

4 mummies + 2 lobsters (thanks, node) vs 5 Focus Magic sprites, 1 war bears, 3 Draconian swordsmen (fortress battle)
Result: enemy wizard defeated, 7 enemies raised as undead

3 mummies vs 3 basilisks, 5 boars
Result: 0 HP lost, all enemies raised as undead

4 mummies + 3 basilisks vs 1 demon lord + 1 mummies
Result: 1 mummies lost, but I won lol

Verdict: hardcore snowball cheat code. Mummies can't win against absolutely everything, but the massive tidal wave of free, disposable ghouls in every battle sure does help. Ghouls look weak but a tide of 12 ghouls all firing away at a demon lord will still chip its health away -- I didn't find any rare units to fight but after that battle I'm even more confident that most things would be a pushover.

Then the undead that get raised help in the next battle. Didn't think I'd necessarily win the fortress battle or the demon lord battle, but they were actually cakewalks. Also the only spell I cast in any battle was Healing (since I hadn't researched anything else at that point), and I usually didn't even need that. If I were to really play it I'd add the Nodemaster retort, since the mummies are basically a lair / node clearing machine.

[Slingers]

@jhsidi

- Teleport is a bit buggy. When I cast it on my summoned unit, I had to move 1 space normally before the next moved allowed a teleport. When I cast it on my hero, however, the hero became a permanently teleporting unit (Fang the Draconian). Haven't had a fully normal result from casting it yet although I've been hesitant to try again after the hero.

Beaming had its sides in Star Trek 1. Now it seems to work as intended.

- I get hiring offers from mercenaries from Myrror races long before a tower is broken. Not sure if that's a bug, but IIRC it's not allowed in base CoM. The hiring offers are always from the new races (Draugr and Bug so far) so maybe a flag isn't set on them.

I think this behavior is hard-coded and I've never seen it not working. With the Boss modifier, towers open earlier. Maybe that was it?

- I'm trying Bookworm out. After banishing a wizard, I got 1 chaos book, but the wizard only had sorcery and life books. There was no message after the battle about it either.

This should be technically impossible. Anyway, I tried several times and always got a right color while the wizard lost it. Perhaps the wizard picked up the Chaos Book shortly before his banishment.
There is no modding feature for a popup message.

- I also mysteriously picked up the Channeler retort! I believe this either came from banishing the wizard OR from the Retreat spell, which I cast on (I think) the turn after I banished him. But when I loaded an earlier save and cast Retreat I didn't get the retort that time..

Interesting. I could reproduce this one. If you cast Retreat on the banished wizard's fortress city on the same turn, you get the retort, otherwise you don't. Maybe it should stay that way? ;p

- Final note on Bookworm, I previously advocated for this as a feature but giving the book out for a banishment actually feels too easy, on reflection. Even on the highest difficulty settings I can snipe some of the wizards without too much trouble, whereas a full defeat is usually pretty challenging. Maybe a separate setting for Bookworm (Banish) and Bookworm (Defeat)?

Initially this had a smaller chance, but well, that wasn't great for testing. Maybe Bookworm defeat could be default with a lower probability?

As far as the Draugr thing I don't really get the argument that it's just theory that Draugr are overpowered when a unit of 0 XP bowmen can do 16+ damage in a single attack and additionally raise the unit as undead. I'll try taking the mummies for a spin to prove it out though -- I'll place a bet that they can trivially defeat Rare units.

Aha. More testing in their next incarnation? I wonder what the Voodoo Priests could do if all units have No Healing. Cast Possession?

[Slingers]

The last version had a faulty More Stuff.ini file, which could lead to crashes after installing the MOD via the main screen.

The download link in the first post has been updated with the current version, which also fixes some other previously mentioned issues and includes more finished Draugr.

[Zypher]

After playing Draugr a little I would say that Mummies are a very overpowered unit. Being able to summon 3 ghouls each and 2 a turn makes it pretty much impossible for any AI to defend against it early on up until atleast Master Difficulty.

Since it only require an oracle to build them it can be rushed quite fast and then you can swallow the AI easely and take out atleast 2-3 without much effort and gain plenty of undead to defend your cities.

I think they would need a bit of a nerf. Maybe make them "only" 2-3 figueres, or remove the counter immunity as it's also quite easy to take most of the lairs when you have 27 Ghouls alongside together with the 9 mummies. Or perhaps make them come avalible slightly a bit later with more buildings required.

Maybe I have been lucky and not faced a really good counter to them, but so far I think they can take enough of a punch to be able to cast their ghouls and then you run over a big majority of things you face early on.

[Slingers]

After playing Draugr a little I would say that Mummies are a very overpowered unit. Being able to summon 3 ghouls each and 2 a turn makes it pretty much impossible for any AI to defend against it early on up until atleast Master Difficulty.

Since it only require an oracle to build them it can be rushed quite fast and then you can swallow the AI easely and take out atleast 2-3 without much effort and gain plenty of undead to defend your cities.

I think they would need a bit of a nerf. Maybe make them "only" 2-3 figueres, or remove the counter immunity as it's also quite easy to take most of the lairs when you have 27 Ghouls alongside together with the 9 mummies. Or perhaps make them come avalible slightly a bit later with more buildings required.

Maybe I have been lucky and not faced a really good counter to them, but so far I think they can take enough of a punch to be able to cast their ghouls and then you run over a big majority of things you face early on.

Aha. Some of this has already happened. Check out the Mummies in the last update and Draugr in general if you have time. I was also thinking about fewer figures, but maybe it's no longer necessary.

[Zypher]

After playing Draugr a little I would say that Mummies are a very overpowered unit. Being able to summon 3 ghouls each and 2 a turn makes it pretty much impossible for any AI to defend against it early on up until atleast Master Difficulty.

Since it only require an oracle to build them it can be rushed quite fast and then you can swallow the AI easely and take out atleast 2-3 without much effort and gain plenty of undead to defend your cities.

I think they would need a bit of a nerf. Maybe make them "only" 2-3 figueres, or remove the counter immunity as it's also quite easy to take most of the lairs when you have 27 Ghouls alongside together with the 9 mummies. Or perhaps make them come avalible slightly a bit later with more buildings required.

Maybe I have been lucky and not faced a really good counter to them, but so far I think they can take enough of a punch to be able to cast their ghouls and then you run over a big majority of things you face early on.

Aha. Some of this has already happened. Check out the Mummies in the last update and Draugr in general if you have time. I was also thinking about fewer figures, but maybe it's no longer necessary.

Ahh, had missed that there was a new update out. I played the one from 2023-11-07. Will for sure check the new one out in a near future.

[Zypher]

After just one try with the mummies on Master difficulty with the new update I would say that it's still overpowered. I think 2 ghouls per Mummy is more than enough acually.
The raised price and no healing (not sure what else was made with them) makes them slightly worse and make it take a bit longer to get a big stack, but with just 3-4 you can clear out alot as it is. And the no healing really doesen't give much as they still have life-steal.

It's a to good unit that early. It would be like getting vikings valkyrie that early to be honest. That's my take on it atleast.

[Slingers]

After just one try with the mummies on Master difficulty with the new update I would say that it's still overpowered. I think 2 ghouls per Mummy is more than enough acually.
The raised price and no healing (not sure what else was made with them) makes them slightly worse and make it take a bit longer to get a big stack, but with just 3-4 you can clear out alot as it is. And the no healing really doesen't give much as they still have life-steal.

It's a to good unit that early. It would be like getting vikings valkyrie that early to be honest. That's my take on it atleast.

Oddly enough, I wasn't that impressed. Maybe I'm too used to the Halflings. ;p But also in comparison to Gnolls. Did you try this without cheat codes?

Edit: I've tried a few different units to storm a neutral Mummy City and can see your point. Not everything worked. Here are two short films that illustrate successes:
 
1.) Swordsmen and 2 Shamans with common buffs
2.) 3 Stone Giants (rare) with Resist Elements

The added requirement of a Temple could delay the Mummies a little. Maybe Lich and Lich King should be the rushable units and Mummies should only be possible after Tree of Knowledge/Elevation?

Edit2: If Lich King and Mummy swap their summoned unit, that might solve the issue.