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[No players] Big epic lurking - PB74

I'll take a look at luxuries and stone after starts are done ya. I don't want to promise balance, but I'll try to make sure everyone has two early ones at least and a later couple as well.

Starts 1 & 3 overall seem weak due to tech requirements and the food involved. If you want to keep them mostly the same what about basically making them the same? IE ocean fish and grassland cow. Maybe move cow to the river as well.

4 - If you want to move plains marble 1W seems fine.

5 - fine making the pig a corn.

6 - I would also be interested in thoughts. My gut is to just move the fish 2 SE, but its not out of concern for them moving but rather to make it more easily worked / give options on city placement. I will almost certainly do something with that island, but I can keep those immediate tiles the same. I think all I've done so far is make it a 2 tile island from 1, but I'll almost certainly move another small island to that space and attach it.

7 - What would you think of making the deer either a grassland or a corn and making pig a sheep. Keeps food the same but lets them improve a 5f tile vs a 4f right away. Their original food was a dry corn and pig, but I just failed to move the corn, so could also just add a corn instead of clam which also helps tech requirements.

8 - I think make the wheat wet by moving it 1W, move the forested deer 1N, and make it a grassland hill like the other one. If they want to lose 2 food by moving onto a plains hill that is their choice. Interested if others have thoughts on this one.

9 - make the gold a wet rice and push the gold away 3 east. Maybe take away the sheep then? I'm pretty anti gold at capitals.

10 - Your original idea was to keep the two clams and make the pig a corn and I think I like that idea instead of the dry rice. The two clams were part of original capital.

11 - this seems like one of the weaker ones, maybe at least swap the grasslands corn and cow? Curious on others thoughts as I know some people value cow more highly than me. Also, lack of river / coastal food commerce makes it weaker as well, maybe add a little 2 tile river going west or north and capital not on it. If keep the cow and corn same spots could add it going south as well (although I'm not opposed to swapping and making corn wet).

14 - wrong picture but sounds fine.

15. See you extended river. Any thoughts on making the new wet rice be on said river?

18 - like the changes, but I think it needs another forest or two? Also maybe a little river.


Random thought: are you opposed to me adding two mountains in the ocean to 'connect' everything?
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Not qualified for real comments but...
#1) I would cry about the southern clam, each day I log in (or is there an island nearby?)
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Can strengthen 1 and 3 but don't want them exactly the same. Will make one a plains shell and the other a grass cow. The clam on 1 is indeed orphaned, which I personally find funny but perhaps can be moved.

I'll swap the clam at 7 for a corn.

Why do you want to make the wheat wet at 8 and weaken the dear? Seems unnecessary. Fine with making it a grass hill though.

Why are you anti gold at capitals? I feel it makes interesting decisions with the flood plains, and there's other starts with happy.

Agnostic with 10. Re 11 I don't want to just add a river everywhere, though I can add one here. Less techs makes it a bit stronger.

I didn't change the river at 15, but happy to push the rice onto it. I think 18 is okay commerce wise given the volume of grass, but I can add a couple more forests

I don't mind re linking the East to the West, though I prefer actual islands to mountains, though I realise islands are not going to be balanced.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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I will probably move clam so it isn't orphaned would also drive me up a wall. Good catch Klops.

8 - I may have poorly communicated. I want to keep deer forested, but move it 1N grassland forest and all. Along with hill being a grassland gives same length worker. I think the other two foods are pretty weak though, but making wheat wet seems good enough.

9 - I pushed for PB67 to have map remade because of one (partially, there were a host of other reasons). It warped the tech rate. You should at least have to choose between settling a city for one vs copper vs a nice food city. And that city probably won't have food of capital to support and help expand. Edit: also this capital doesn't have a 5f tile to improve at first tier tech, but I thought wet wheat would be too much so suggested wet rice. I kind of want to keep the sheep, but maybe wet wheat, lose sheep.

10 - doesn't need a river. I would just give it the 2nd clam back and make pig a corn.

11 - looks weak to me which is why I suggested a river. I've found capitals without resources on rivers or sea resources can suffer with early game tech. I would also make corn first ring and/or make it wet.

15 - maybe I changed this river? It used to be shorter. You can just alter its course if you want, I probably drew unaesthetically anyways.

Maybe I'll link with really small islands or maybe a skinny 1 tile wavy island. Might still be bookended by mountains. Maybe I'll roll some maps and see if any island looks good.
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Re 9, the fact that you want to remove the gold and also strengthen its food points to the advantage of leaving it there. The player will get a stronger commerce start but be slower in food hammers. PB67 was a different kind of map. Here with 19 players having one that has a start that is different should make for some fun diversity.

Sure re the rest.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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9 is either really bad or really good. It is possible it is just right, but I think the point of balancing the capitals in the manner we have been is to "get them close enough". I think its fair to say there is a high chance of variance with this start. I'm not confident enough to predict even if its too good or bad, but it is out of line with other starts and unlikely to have hit "close enough" to the others. Now I don't have as much capital balancing experience, so if you think it is, lets go for it. Lets post starts just for one last round of review to hopefully get a couple more people to chime in.
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Nah, I'll post them tonight in threads. We haven't made that many changes since the last round. If anyone (cough Krill cough) has thoughts speak now or forever hold your peace.

Someone want to roll a list of the players 1 to 19?
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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I was maybe going to bug RefSteel and you said they wouldn't be ready until Wednesday anyways.
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Here is your random list.

1 Scooter
2 Xist10
3 GT
4 Piccadilly
5 Gav
6 Greenline
7 Superdeath
8 Plemo
9 Tarkeel
10 Amicalola
11 Dreylin
12 Pindicator
13 Bing
14 Commodore
15 General Kill Cavalry
16 Miguelito
17 Donovan Zoi
18 Magic Science
19 Hubabl
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That list looks wrong. Commodore really should have been somewhere in the 8 / 9 spot. I HAVE FAILED YOU COMMODORE!!!!  lol
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