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Maniac Wrote:By the way, I'm wondering, if you got a religion, would you be spreading it to the AI factions? And are you just asking a fee because I'm a human player and recognize the value of having a religion? I'm asking because if you wouldn't even want to spread your religion to the AIs, it would be a sign the cost of missionaries needs to be reduced.
At 26 Quick minerals plus probably maintenance during the journey - only if the AI was irreligious and I could gain an ally by making them my religion. And I needed the ally. The Shrine benefits are certainly not strong enough to be worth that cost.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
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Maniac Wrote:I'm asking because if you wouldn't even want to spread your religion to the AIs, it would be a sign the cost of missionaries needs to be reduced.
Been thinking about this. I don't see how you *can* balance missionaries, not when their value fluctuates so much. At the high end, a missionary can be worth +1  , +1.25 Energy, +2Food, +2 XP (Ascetic Virtues, Fundamentalism with a Shrine). At the low end, just uncertain diplo benefits (pre-shrine, foreign spread). There are several levels in between, too, depending on the state of your infrastructure. Which level do you aim to match the cost to? And do you credit the value of the shrine to the missionary, or to the Great Person who's not bulbing something?
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I'll reply to to that later, but I'd like to quickly mention to Sareln now that Mardoc isn't researching Pressure Dome.
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Maniac Wrote:I'll reply to to that later, but I'd like to quickly mention to Sareln now that Mardoc isn't researching Pressure Dome.
Noted.
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Maniac Wrote:I'll reply to to that later, but I'd like to quickly mention to Sareln now that Mardoc isn't researching Pressure Dome.
And here I'd been thinking you wanted to be friendly... 
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Mardoc Wrote:And here I'd been thinking you wanted to be friendly...
I'm acting according to the principle that 'information should be free' and all that. No unfriendliness intended. By all means, I'd like you to join me in my quest for additional power. By this action I only hoped to maximize the chances of getting a religion. Which may not have worked, alas.
Mardoc Wrote:Been thinking about this. I don't see how you *can* balance missionaries, not when their value fluctuates so much. At the high end, a missionary can be worth +1, +1.25 Energy, +2Food, +2 XP (Ascetic Virtues, Fundamentalism with a Shrine). At the low end, just uncertain diplo benefits (pre-shrine, foreign spread). There are several levels in between, too, depending on the state of your infrastructure. Which level do you aim to match the cost to? And do you credit the value of the shrine to the missionary, or to the Great Person who's not bulbing something?
Personally I'd like to balance the cost of a missionary with the benefit the shrine gives for spreading the religion to a foreign base. So no taking account of fundamentalism.
Of course the cost of missionary should also take into account the benefit it gives in the base locally. That's why an Ascetic costs 60 hammers, as I consider +1 food more often useful than +1 planet, +2 culture or +2 GPP.
Anyway, I agree with your assessment that spreading your religion to foreign bases is often not worth it. I just based the cost of missionaries on vanilla Civ4 and assumed that it may be a lack of player skills which caused me to underapprecriate spreading one's religion. But if I'm not the only one who feels spreading one's religion is economically unsound...
The Homo Superior shrine benefit could be changed to +1 science per base with the religion. As the base can be given an Academy, that would make spreading one's religion +50% better.
Edenism shrine could be made into +1 gold, +1 culture instead of just +1 gold. If you're running Terraformed, the extra culture is useful so that you don't have to waste former turns on removing fungus.
Ascetic Virtues, with the 60 hammer Ascetic, is hard. +2 shrine gold per base is probably too much. Currently it's +1 gold, but the shrine gives +25% credits to the base.
Given that the Concordat motion can give lots of free Acolytes, boosting the Voice of Planet shrine probably isn't necessary.
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congrats to whoever it was that got Voice of Planet ... share??
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My condolences to who didn't research Voice of Planet.
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Hey, Maniac, your people don't want to trade. Unless you've got a way to debug this, I'm going to close my borders again.
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I've noted so myself. I'll have a look at the C++ code, but my current theory is that we need to see each other's bases.
Sareln, would you be interested in a map trade to test this theory? Or else just send a unit in each other's territory?
(I'm guessing the Pirates wouldn't be interested in sharing maps  )
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