OSG 29A - The Charismatic Introverts

[Sullla]

Got it. Busy day for me so I'll look to play 10 turns this evening. Feel free to keep posting, I'll read the thread again before playing.

[DaveV]

Looks pretty solid.  I do have one small complaint: I really think it's early to start spending on on either missile bases or ship placeholders, when we haven't even started on weapons research.  Right now, our best options are nuclear missile bases and laser fighters, and I think either one would just be a bug on the windshield if a neighbor decided to hit us.

Yeah, the ships are intended to morph into dead colony ships. As to missile bases, a single base might be enough to chase away a few AI mediums or an armed colony ship. Once the AIs put a fleet into orbit, they *will* send transports, which results in us losing a chunk of population (best case) or a planet (worst case). We can't see enemy fleets coming, so we need some defenses.

Plus, bases upgrade automatically. Money spent on bases now is money we're not spending on other important stuff, but if they help us hold a planet I consider it money well spent.

[haphazard1]

Getting one missile base up can often be helpful, as it can hold off a surprising amount of enemy ships due to the halving effect of attacking planets with beam weapons. At this point we do not yet have class II deflectors, though, so even a regular laser will have a chance of damaging a base.

I still like getting one base up, but we do need to get some research going soon, even if it is just a trrickle for some first rung techs.

Edit: Further thought on reserve-funded factories or research. We will build those factories anyway, from local spending. So the investment return is really 18 BC to accelerate the factory some number of turns. At two-thirds of a BC net production per turn, it would be beneficial if we build the factory at least 27 turns sooner than we would using only local spending. Not sure that looks too good in pure cost/benefit terms. Much harder to estimate the value of the planet being mature enough to defend itself sooner, of course; that may make it worth doing at twice the cost.

[Sullla]

It's been a long time since I played Master of Orion in a succession game. Let's hope this goes well.



Turn 0 (2360): OK, this is one of my pet peeves. Darrian is splitting its spending in five different direction, trying to do a whole bunch of different things at once. You will almost never see me doing this; I like to put 100% of my non-waste cleanup spending into one field at a time. If I want to build ships, then I'll set a planet to direct all its efforts into building ships. If I want to push research, then I'll go all research. Trying to do five things at once just causes you to get nothing done. This is a bit of a personal preference, but I do think that pushing for a single goal at all possible speed comes out ahead most of the time instead of splitting focus.

Now in the specific case of Darrian, we've maxed factories but we haven't maxed population, and at 93/100 population we're wasting 14 factories each turn. Population growth is very slow when a planet is nearly maxed out like this, and so sitting around and waiting for those last 7 people to grow isn't a good idea. Ideally we'd ship in population from immature worlds to top off Darrian, but with warp 1 engines that would be too slow to be worthwhile. This is actually one time where growing those last few population points with the eco slider is the right call:



The Eco slider won't let me go past +6 population, which means that we'll grow one population point naturally and get the other 6 from ecology spending. The cost to do this is about 100 BC, but in exchange we'll start gaining an additional 17 BC next turn and make that back over the next few turns. It's also a personal irritant for me - I hate having planets sit around almost maxed out with factories going unused. I think the math works out that this is roughly break-even in this case over waiting for the population to grow naturally, but I want this planet sitting at 100/200 dangit!

Sol is maxed out on factories/population, and Endoria is nearly so. Uxmai is ripe for terraforming so I'm going to do that by splitting the 50 BC cost across two turns. Paladia is doing some strange kind of trickle terraforming; it can finish that immediately by increasing the Eco spending, so I go ahead and do that. I like to try to do terraforming in either one turn (if a planet can afford the full 50 BC cost) or across two turns at 25 BC each. If a planet is too weak to manage 25 BC, then it usually needs to build more factories first. Collassa is just getting started and about to receive a population shipment next turn. In larger terms, I'm going to have Sol sink another turn of research into Controlled Dead to get it into the percentages and then start prebuilding the Tundra colony ships in earnest after that. Actually, I think I'll open up the remaining tech fields next turn with a big initial surge of spending and then go over to colony ship building after that.

I also send our scouts forward to check out those two planets in the northeast. All races are still Relaxed with us on the diplomacy screen. We have contact with the Alkari: Honorable Industrialists, and they are running some One Planet Empire action. It looks like the Meklar took their homeworld somewhere in the north.

Turn 1 (2361): Between turns, the Silicoids show up with a colony ship at the Ultra Rich planet in the southwest. Unfortunately, it's an armed colony ship. Well, maybe it has missles on board? (Sometimes the colony ships just have a weak missile and you can get them to retreat after firing.) Nope, lasers. Rats. Well, it was worth a shot. We weren't going to be able to hold off that world longterm, but I hoped we'd keep it out of their hands a little longer.



Wow, lucky us: Controlled Dead pops at 8% odds! And this is not the old pre-patch version where the displayed odds are half of the actual odds, this was a genuine 8% chance. Neat. I have a choice between Controlled Inferno, Terraforming +30, and Controlled Toxic. Controlled Inferno would be worth exactly one planet that the Silicoids will likely claim first, and the tech we really need is Controlled Radiated. I go for Terraforming +30 and hope for Controlled Radiated at the next tech rung.

Endoria maxes factories, Darrian maxes population. Paladia finishes terraforming this turn (now max 55 pop), Endoria will finish terraforming next turn. I'm going to open the rest of the tech fields this turn with a huge surge of research spending (540 BC) and then have Sol and Darrian pop out the two Dead colony ships starting next turn. The planets in question are both backline worlds and should be safe. Endoria can then carry the research load and get that bonus research (or whatever, I think that's how the formula works, never been quite sure about all that!)

Turn 2 (2362): New tech options. We have only one option in Computer tech: ECM I. Well, at least it will be cheap at only 160 RP. No choice as always in shields with Class II Deflectors (and wow is that cheap for the Humans at only 380 RP!) and I take Hand Lasers over Hyper-Vs in the Weapons tree. That... also cost only 160 RP. I don't think I've ever picked three tech fields this cheap on Impossible!

I design a warp 2 speed Dead colony ship:



Two turns to build in Sol, three turns to build in Darrian. With the added speed, I should be able to colonize both of them on my turnset. Uxmai finishes terraforming, back to factory construction. This is what we want the research screen to look like:



Everything is lit up other than Construction, where Duralloy is a much more expensive tech than the rest. We'll speed past these cheap early techs and start loading on up better stuff down the tree.

Turn 3 (2363): Quiet turn, nothing much going on.

Turn 4 (2364): OK, time to order up another colony ship:



The number of gigantic Terran planets in our corner of the galaxy is almost disgusting. Sol just finished a Dead colony ship this turn, so I design a new standard non-hostile colony ship with warp 2 speed and queue that up. It's worth doing this as the non-Dead version costs 409 BC against 615 BC for the Dead one. Two turns for the new colony ship out of Sol. The ship that did finish this turn heads off to the Ultra Rich Dead planet. Only size 15 at the moment, but that's why we have terraforming technology.

Turn 5 (2365): We get another scouting report back from the red start in the northeast, and it's another habitable planet! Cygni, Minimal size 65. Well, that works out perfectly: Darrian now starts another non-Dead colony ship to go claim that planet. The Dead colony ship finished this turn heads for the Tundra 45 planet in the midst of our territory. By the way, Sol is RELOCating its colony ship to Collassa en route to that Terran 90 planet in the northeast. I should still be playing the turnset in time to reassign it and hopefully won't forget.

I'm also slowly shifting some scouts up to the north side of the map, since our range is going to expand once we colonize these new planets.

Turn 6 (2366): The Silicoids chase a scout of ours off of a Barren planet in the far northwest (Dolz). They had two Large ships for escort plus their colony ships are armed, not much we could do about this. Sol finishes its non-Dead colony ship and goes back over to research for the time being. Computers and Weapons techs are already in the percentages, heh.

Turn 7 (2367): We colonize Artemis, the Tundra 45 planet. Because this is a Hostile planet where growing population is difficult, Darrian is going to grow the population for it:



Darrian can currently regrow about 10% of its population per turn by using the Eco slider. I had it send 9 pop to the new world of Endoria this turn, and it should be able to regrow all of that between turns. Then I'll do the same thing on the next couple turns, and keep sending them off to Artemis. When that population arrives, it should take Artemis to near-max population, and immensely speed up factory production. Since Hostile planets are so bad at growing population, it's very worthwhile to help them get up to speed like that. Once our Ultra Rich planet is pumping funds into the Reserve each turn, I'll start spending liberally to double the production of new worlds each turn. These are some of the little tricks that can let you accelerate the growth curve of new worlds.

The RELOC lines are left on the screen to keep me from forgetting that I have two colony ships en route to Collossa.

Turn 8 (2368): The Alkari scout the "None" planet in the north with an armed Small ship. I retreat and then hold position; they'll leave next turn. We colonize the Dead Ultra Rich planet (Exis) in the east. Endoria is the closest world and will supply Exis with population, in two batches of 6 pop. Darrian sent 9 pop to Artemis last turn and will send 9 more this turn. Sol carrying the research load at the moment, with Computers and Weapons tech both at 80% discovery rate. Collossa is done terraforming now and stacking up more factories.

By the way, I've been watching the enemy ships on the fleet movement screen each turn, the little we can see without an improved scanner. No one seems to be making any hostile moves towards us, so I haven't been trying to build missile bases yet. I would start them on Paladia once it maxes out on factories/pop though.

Turn 9 (2369): Discover ECM I tech. I have no choice on the next tech: Battle Computer III only. We do not have Robotic Controls III in our tree. Have to try to find it or steal it, that or hope that we have Improved Robotics IV. Hand Lasers did not pop at 85% last turn, heh. We should get it this turn.

I move a colony ship on to Rho, the Terran 90 in the northeast. Darrian and Endoria are still sending population to Artemis and Exis, respectively.



Turn 10 (2370): Discover Hand Lasers. In a choice between Hyper-Xs, Fusion Boms, and Ion Cannons, I go for the bomb option. Fusion Bombs have a long useful lifespan, while we can pretty easily get better missiles or better guns. If there's no missiles available the next run though, I would suggest backtracking for Hyper Xs. Hopefully we have Merculites or Scatter Pack Vs at the next rung. The rest of the turn is uneventful.

Notes for the next player:

* There is a colony ship being RELOCated to Collossa. Send this ship on to Cygni, the Minimal 65, next turn. That's the most important thing - don't forget about this ship!

* Darrian and Endoria are done sending population to the new Hostile planets. It's up to you how to manage them from here. The Ultra Rich should be terraformed as soon as that population arrives, and then I'd send in more population to hit the new planetary max. Exis shouldn't have any trouble stacking up factories.

* Our scouts are hanging out at the "None" planet ready to expand further north once we colonize more planets.

* The Silicoids, Bulrathi, and Mrrshans are all allied together against the Meklars. The Alkari are not part of this alliance structure, but they are also at war with the Meklars too! If the borgs are our opponent, we could actually win the next council vote in 5 turns. Probably not but let's see what happens. It appears that the rest of the galaxy is at war as we farm away in our corner. Perfect conditions for an easy game.



Good luck! Here's the savegame file.

[haphazard1]

There certainly are a lot of big, juicy terran worlds in this galaxy. I wonder if the MOO galaxy generator does "flavors" as it sure seems like some galaxies are more hostile than others, some have a lot more mineral rich/ultra rich worlds, some have lots of one type (terran, steppe, etc.). Maybe it is just confirmation bias on my part, but the maps seem streaky rather than fully random.

Looks like more good turns, Sullla. Thanks for explaining your thinking for your moves -- I have been learning a lot from these SGs and this kind of description/explanation really helps with that.

I believe I am the next player, so this is a "Got it!" I should be able to play mid-day tomorrow, so hopefully there is time for additional comments and feedback from the team. Biggest question I see: if we do stumble into a possible council win, do we take it? Seems like we have not really done anything to earn a victory yet, other than grab a bunch of nice habitable worlds that none of the AIs could reach aarly on. But if the game wants to just hand us a victory....

The rocks have a lot of worlds, but being the rocks they probably do not have the pop to be a candidate. So if it is machines and us, and the machines have stepped on everyone's toes, well.... Assuming that does not happen (or we choose not to take it):

- Colonize Rha (ship already on way)
- Colonize Cygni (ship on way to Collasa, needs to be sent further along)
- Scout further north
- Keep developing our newer worlds
- Research some better technology

Unless our diplo situation changes I don't think we are ready to start any kind of significant military spending, especially while we are still scouting, colonizing, and developing worlds.

[Mardoc]

Maybe it is just confirmation bias on my part, but the maps seem streaky rather than fully random.

As I understand it, this is a strong indication that the maps really are random - true randomness is a lot more streaky than human intuition thinks it should be.

Looks like more good turns, Sullla. Thanks for explaining your thinking for your moves -- I have been learning a lot from these SGs and this kind of description/explanation really helps with that.

+1

Biggest question I see: if we do stumble into a possiblee council win, do we take it? Seems like we have not really done anything to earn a victory yet, other than grab a bunch of nice habitable worlds that none of the AIs could reach aarly on. But if the game wants to just hand us a victory....

Personally I would just note it and then abstain. In contrast to OSG-28's election, this doesn't really feel like a dominant position...plus I would give the Meklar a decent chance of winning a Final War if the AI were to actually fight one.

Unless our diplo situation changes I don't think we are ready to start any kind of significant military spending, especially while we are still scouting, colonizing, and developing worlds.

Pretty much agree. Mainly what we need now is to climb the tech tree while consolidating our claims. I suspect by my turnset it will be worth beginning to spy, and then Ianus will be in position to start a definite plan for what military we need to resume expansion.

[Ianus]

I generally agree with this plan. As our empire continues to strengthen I think we should build at least some (I like 10 as a nice round number) based on exposed worlds but right now that isn't critical. Mainly we should build up and tech and get ourselves into a position to both defend our territory and prosecute a (hopefully limited) war of expansion. The target of that war can be decided upon later. I generally like mounting an offensive to drive the Silicoids out of our home area (they are like termites on all of those hostile worlds) and then gearing up for a major offensive to claim a difinitive amount of territory. And then we win! Yay!

[haphazard1]

I like the "and then we win" part.

About to start playing. Time to see what happens next.

[haphazard1]

We did in fact have a diplomatic victory for the taking at the 2375 council vote. I abstained and continued, but have attached the 2374 save for anyone who would prefer to take the victory instead. It was us against the Meklar, and the machines (erratic in this galaxy) were at war with everyone but us.

[Ianus]

Ha! I don't often play as the Humans because I like diplomacy less than conquest so I forget how strong they can be in that way. I also think that we should play on at least for now, but if we play out cards right we may be turning down victories for a while.
Anything else to report from your set? I suspect we will be in a period of slow play for a little while until someone either attacks us or we start going on the offensive.
Who is up now?