[NO PLAYERS] Which DLC Civ is Most OP? (PBEM6 Lurking Thread)

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Alhambram's move makes me happy - I didn't want this game being decided by a Classical age rush, and this makes it less likely. If Archduke can't quickly eat a neighbor, though, Macedon just becomes a very uninspiring civ.

[shallow_thought]

Alhambram's move makes me happy - I didn't want this game being decided by a Classical age rush, and this makes it less likely. If Archduke can't quickly eat a neighbor, though, Macedon just becomes a very uninspiring civ.

Looks like t'Archduke grees with you, judging from his latest post...

[RefSteel]

So ... presumably Alhambram will offer or take white peace at the first opportunity, if only to start the ten-turn countdown until he can declare "surprise" war again, to pick up his movement bonus (perhaps for an attack on Poland) and/or help Suboptimal further against TheArchduke if necessary. Unless he thinks Suboptimal is already snowballing to a strong position and his own biggest competition, it seems like the obvious move to me.

On the other side, it's neat to see TheArchduke trying to go all-out with Macedonia. If anything, I wonder if it might have worked better to pursue his Basilisk Pads (and then Hat Arrows) even more single-mindedly, to get as much science-from-units out of the former as possible en route to trying to get a GG snowball rolling with the latter. Either way, I feel like he's right that a winning playstyle with that civ (if one exists) is awfully narrow and pre-ordained.

[Sullla]

Suboptimal, what in the world are you doing?



Suboptimal has played an excellent 50 opening turns. He's making good use of the Australia unique bonuses and the war declarations for those ten turns of +100% production accelerated his civ past everyone else in the early turns. He reached horsemen before TheArchduke could reach swords/horses himself and doesn't look to be in any danger of getting overrun militarily. Furthermore, time is enormously on suboptimal's side in this conflict with TheArchduke. Macedonia is a one trick pony civ, designed for early rushes and nothing else. Australia is a builder civ with much of their power unlocking with the outback stations halfway through the tech tree. Australia wins the game by out-researching its opponents with those silly district adjacency bonuses while Macedonia's only path to victory is the Classical era rush with a Great General.

So given all that, why in the world is suboptimal looking to ATTACK into fortified defenses right now?! It makes absolutely no strategic sense whatsoever. He should have leaped at the opportunity to get peace with TheArchduke and therefore score the +100% production bonus again any time that war was renewed. As Australia in this situation, it seems to me that the obvious play was to sue for peace, stake out a defensive position along the border, and otherwise keep on building and teching. Macedonia can't keep up with Australia in a peaceful game. Just keep racing down the tech tree until those hetaroi units are obsolete and then laugh when they get impaled trying to attack against your crossbows.

Am I missing something here? These actions seem like a complete misread of the strategic situation.

[Cornflakes]

I completely agree Sullla! That offer of peace was a huge opportunity that Suboptimal passed up. The military builds that he did were good, and I think led into that offer of peace by TheArchduke, but I completely agree that the classical era is not the time for an offensive. Sit tight, fortify the border with another city out east, keep enough military to hold the border and either wait for TAD to declare war and grant another shot of +100% or tech ahead and eat Macedonia at a technological advantage. It's not like Suboptimal is pressed for space to expand in the short term.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Emperor's play for BOTH a GP and a GG at the start always seemed shaky. Now it seems like it's going to come back to bite him.

[Old Harry]

Suboptimal expects to lose one horse here. I'll be surprised if he doesn't lose it for no gain as the injured hypaspist should retreat to heal easily.

[oledavy]

Still to get my spirit up, current losses added with this turn are:

Suboptimal:

Horseman: 5
Warrior: 2
Archer: 3
Spearman: 1

TheArchduke

Hypasist: 1

Holy crap, what? How did this happen?

[Jabah]

With huge exaggeration I would say:
1. concentrating units with GG supports against random units killed on their own
2. (much) better tactical understanding of the (war)game

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I think the suboptimal/Archduke war will warrant close examination by everyone trying to get a handle on Civ 6 warfare.

As near as I can tell, this was the closest thing to an "even match" that we've seen in any of these PBEMs. The two sides weren't symmetrical - Archduke had a slightly smaller army of more powerful units, boosted by a great general, while suboptimal fielded a larger army of slightly weaker horsemen, with a larger production base and more science - but in overall strength, at least judging by the score, the two sides were balanced with each other - and yet the war has been entirely one-sided.

Why has Archduke given suboptimal such a thumping, to the point where his capital has fallen and the war is effectively decided? I can think of a handful of possible explanations:

1)The double UU Macedon gets really DOES make a huge difference in classical age warfare
2)The GG giving Archduke extra mobility has allowed him to outmaneuver suboptimal
3)suboptimal frittered his army away in piecemeal assaults and wide flanking maneuvers that were too weak to accomplish anything, while Archduke stayed concentrated in one mass and neatly defeated Australia's larger army in detail.

One other lesson I'm drawing is how limited in effect walls are. They make things inconvenient, but nothing more, it seems. Without an army capable of contesting the enemy in the field, you're doomed.