[SPOILERS] naufragar is in for a penny

[RefSteel]

Yup, demos adjust in real time. (Actually, I think they adjust when you load the demo screen, so if someone's in game and fiddling with their tile assignments, you won't see it update as they do so, but if you check the screen, and you and/or another player change the tiles being worked and then you go back to the demo screen, you'll see the change.)

[naufragar]

Thanks, Ref.

Also, DANGER! FALSE ASSUMPTION ALERT!

Just because the Creative civs gained no water tiles doesn't mean they aren't coastal. They could have had one water tile diagonally from their city. When borders popped, they would have gained only land tiles if the sea kept going diagonally. I'm too lazy to draw this, but if you imagine the plains forest directly NE of my capitol was water, you can see how I could have more water access than the border pop would tell.

So, I guess this was still an exercise in arithmetic.  

[naufragar]

It's beautiful.

[naufragar]

Our glorious civilization now controls larger territory thanks to its wonderful culture, and Rick found more water.




I wish I could tell if that was salt or fresh water, but I'd have to turn the interface on, and I really need to learn to play without crutches.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have found the ocean. Lighthoused lakes, here we come.

Let's check demos.




Rival worst land area is interesting. Nobody has more than 1 water tile in their BFC. Hmm. Wait a minute. What's this?






That's a warrior first start. Pop is unchanged, and no one got a tech this fast. Spoilers for rambling.

I honestly hope my post in the tech thread didn't influence anyone to go warrior first. Teasing, not manipulating, was my intention. Setting that aside, do I think a warrior rush is viable in RB meta? Absolutely. For example, my start would (will?) be thoroughly screwed if a warrior suddenly appears. I'm going to be size one for a very long time, so even with Bronze Working I won't be able to whip a defense. My first warrior doesn't come on line until about turn 18. That means I have to hope that whoever has a warrior is more than 13 turns away from me. We know there are about 229 land tiles per player, so maybe the distance is that great, but 13 tiles seems like generous spacing. Even after I get my first warrior, there's no way I can get a warrior off my pigs until I get a second. Could someone turn that choke into a kill? I suspect so. I'm going to be doing a little micro to see if I can go worker-warrior-worker instead of work-work-war.

BGN in reply to superdeath said that the consensus was that a warrior rush wouldn't have its initiator as the primary or even sole beneficiary. I think this is bad game theory. If player X rushes player Y, and player Z and player X both benefit from the weakened neighbor, even if player Z benefits more than player X, player X's position relative to the entire field is much improved. I suspect that RB doesn't like warrior rushes for the same reason it likes lush starts. The civ this site plays is about micro-ing and expanding better than the other guy. That's not just strategy; it's personality. I'll probably look at solider averages for this turn and the previous to make sure it's only the one warrior. Honestly, if it is just one, I might roll the dice that it's not my neighbor. Like I've said before, if I do get ganked, I'll have to laugh.

[naufragar]

Hold on. Hold on. Cancel the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I hadn't checked scores (partly because I didn't expect to see any change. Foolish.) Assuming that rival highest soldiers increased from 4k to 6k, I checked for who (besides me) could've built a warrior to get to 6k. Only AdrienIer and GermanJoey start with 4k soldier points. I logged back in, because I would've been surprised if either of them went warrior first and I noticed this (because this time I was looking for it):




Ok. So Aretas gained a tech. He started with Hunting and Mysticism (2k soldiers). I guess he gained archery? Let's get to the dot mapping phase, please. This C&D stuff is too confusing.

(I guess this doesn't let us completely off the hook. Archer rush ho!)

[naufragar]

We are not alone in the universe.


(I'm dropping the no interface schtick. While pretty, I was missing stuff constantly toggling it for pictures.)

First things, I'd love lurker wisdom on a whole slew of issues. First, I have no intention of camping the timer or playing clock games. Life's too busy and short. I've been trying to play my turn as soon as I can and I notice it's rolled. If I move my scout away before Rusten logs back in, will he get a notice that he's met me? Again, I'm not going to change my turnplaying; just asking about the mechanics (and maybe the etiquette?). Second, is any saltwater body eligible for harbors, lighthouses, etc or is that eligibility based on size? Finally, I think that the restrictions on city spacing are lifted if the cities are on different continents. Is there a way to check if I should be able to found a city on the plains the scout is on and the plains hill on the island? (Purely hypothetical. I hates flatland.)

Rusten is Cyrus (Cha/Imp) of Arabia (Myst, Agri). Anything with Imp is good. Cha synergizes well, since you can throw down a bunch of cities quick and then grow them tall. The Madrassa is already lovely. The Cha discount makes it even better. Camel archers do what knights do. Rusten will be able to plant cities down quickly and not sacrifice much to get borders popped. (And +4 culture too! Madrassas really are great buildings.) He'll certainly be a force at the border.

Does anyone know if he's dedlurked with anyone around here before?

I don't want to speculate about what the facing of his scout means. I'm sinking below .500 for my guesswork. It would obviously be a nice bit of breathing room if he is located across a water way, rather than directly northeast. If I plant on the plains hill that gets all those lakes and he plants on the hill NE of the wheat, we'll be in a tense spot, especially since Rusten will probably be able to out culture me. Here's to staying friends forever.

[RefSteel]

First things, I'd love lurker wisdom on a whole slew of issues.

Ask and ye shall receive!

If I move my scout away before Rusten logs back in, will he get a notice that he's met me? Again, I'm not going to change my turnplaying; just asking about the mechanics (and maybe the etiquette?).

I don't think he gets any special notification; he'd have to notice that the question mark is gone from next to your name or check F4 or the like. Etiquette says since there's no possibility of combat and no current settler race, keeping the turn moving is more important than preserving turn order even though playing first next turn might give you an information advantage.

Second, is any saltwater body eligible for harbors, lighthouses, etc or is that eligibility based on size?

Yes; water buildings can be built at any salt water location (salt water is any body of water with 10 tiles or more). Boats (other than workboats) can be built only on a sea with 20 water tiles or more, and WBs can be built on any body of water that contains seafood.

Finally, I think that the restrictions on city spacing are lifted if the cities are on different continents. Is there a way to check if I should be able to found a city on the plains the scout is on and the plains hill on the island?

Yes, this is correct. Both cities could coexist.

Does anyone know if he's dedlurked with anyone around here before?

I think he's dropped in a couple of times and "dedlurked" someone he knew in a game or two without playing a very significant role. He's been active on CivFanatics for ages.

Also, by the way: I absolutely love your thread. Thank you so much for keeping it up to date!

[naufragar]

Thanks Ref. It's amazing how much little stuff there is to sweat over, even when you think you know the game...

I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. I'll try to keep updating regularly, although no doubt it's easier when the turns themselves take little thought. (I do occasionally feel guilty updating this and bumping it to the top with "hey look. A scout defogged another four tiles.")

I've lurked around here for a loooong time. I arrived in early 2010 looking for FFH tips and found FFH PBEM1. I stuck around, and reading various MP games here brought me back to and taught me vanilla BtS. And yet, I don't think I've ever commented on an MP game here. So, I guess reporting this is paying back for all the games I've enjoyed from a distance. All that said, let's hope I can keep up the energy and focus, although I don't expect I'll be one of the players forced to manage a 200 city empire next October...

[naufragar]

Nothing earth shattering discovered this turn. That eastern body of water is looking like it'll support a navy. It's nice to have some free real estate between my capitol and the beach, but I'll have to remember that human players know how to launch surprise naval raids from the fog.




What I wouldn't give to have an easy way to pop borders over those islands. In fact, the thought is getting lodged in the back of my mind that those islands are a natural border between west and east here. They are seven tiles away from my cap, which very well could be the half way point between two civs. So...I should probably start planning a way to grab them first.

I need to get a better map because I suspect I'll have to choose between easy westward expansion and difficult but strategically valuable eastern expansion.

[naufragar]

Boy. Sometime over the past two turns, I've moved from playing morning turns to evening turns, and I'm noticeably more sluggish because of it. Have been kinda busy so missed reporting the previous turn.

Two turns ago (turn 8) a bunch of people gained techs. (Dtay, superdeath, SOHT, Dreylin, 2metraninja, Mackoti, TBS, and xenu). Turn 8 total rival soldiers was 84,984. Turn 7 total rival soldiers was 67,992. I realize I didn't post the demos, but trust me. I'm trying to always keep track. The change between turns was 16,992. Aretas gained a pop point (his score is 36), so the total soldiers gained from tech is 15,992. I'm just going to round that to 16k and divide by the number of people with score increases. Ok. Those 8 players gained 2k points of soldiers from tech. Everybody named but superdeath had hunting, so they all got mining, and I don't think superdeath had time to get hunting, but I very well could be wrong. Maybe I'll check in the morning.




The new total number of rival soldiers is 3833*24=91,991. The change from last turn is 7008. Let's say 7k. Dark Savant gained 1 pop. That means 6k soldiers were gain by 6 players (GermanJoey, OT4E/Chumchu, Pindicator, WilliamLP, Plako, and BGN). I started trying to guess who did what, but I'm just too tired. Also, it's almost certainly an exercise in frustration. I've got a hypothetical tech down for everybody, but maybe I don't need to force my guesses on you all. (BGN, who started with Hunting and Mining, almost certainly took Agriculture. Otherwise, he took wheel for 4k soldier points, leaving only one of the above players to take hunting or mining, which I suspect is unlikely.)

We have discovered wildlife!




I forgot to take a shot of where the scout moved. He moved to the grass hill to his southwest. That wolf has like a 0.1% chance of killing him, but he could actually do some serious damage. I don't want to slow my exploration to heal, but maybe I will. Bleh. Also, with a worker on the way, I really probably should update some micro plans. (And you can bet I'm gonna find a way to plant a city on the hellishly exposed plains hill jutting out into the water.)

P.S. Before I forget, I wonder what Dark Savant and Aretas are/were building. Aretas grew turn 8; the math on that at least makes sense. He worked a 3 food tile the entire time. I have no clue how Dark Savant grew on turn 9. Five turns working three food, then four turns on a 2 food tile? Ok. So he worked a food tile until borders popped and then switched to something? Ivory like me? Then what was he building? (Please not a warrior. It'll throw off all my tech guesswork. )