[Spoilers] Grotsnot massively inflates his own View count

[Cornflakes]

Science overflow disappearing is a known bug. When a eureka is triggered, any pending overflow disappears. The same is true for inspirations killing culture overflow (and I think even Greece kill-unit culture bugs overflow as well).

In your case, the Masonry eureka triggered by the quarry is what caused the overflow to disappear. The only way to avoid this is to time your eurekas on a turn when you don’t have overflow pending. You can try to minimize it by trying to complete techs with les overflow. But sometimes it’s impossible to avoid

[Grotsnot]

Well that's incredibly stupid. But thanks for the tip. It's not even overflow into the tech that was Eureka'd I'm sure we can count on Firaxis to fix this approximately never

So if I'd just waited one turn to build the quarry it'd have applied the overflow and then the following turn would have gone as normal?

Edit: also, does a Eureka additionally wipe Culture overflow or vice versa?

[Grotsnot]

While we're at it, is there anything known to vanish production overflow?  

Thanks again for the help Feeling a lot better just knowing how I can manage it, even if it's completely stupid and unnecessary. Like with district discounts not updating until you finish a tech/civic. Just sloppy programming

Looking like this might cost me 1 turn on the Religion but after that 3 seems to be getting drowned out, so at least there's that. Not an awful price to pay for this little bit of education.

[suboptimal]

A science boost does not wipe out culture overflow and vice versa. It's probably happening because instead of calculating the value of the boost they're just bringing the current tech up to 50% of its value. I don't know of anything that causes production or faith overflow to disappear. I do know that food overflow is handled weirdly. For example, harvesting a food resource in the mid/late game that would give you enough food to get multiple population will get you 1 pop now and some manner of extra food, but a good portion of the food disappears. However, harvesting in one population has the overflow applied in a similar manner as production - the chop value is added to your current total, if the threshold amount is exceeded the "item" is completed an its cost deducted from the total amount. Note that it is possible to produce multiple things in a turn with chopping (CMF demonstrated this in PBEM 8, I believe) and it is probable that you can get a 2 pop increase in a city via two food harvests.

[Grotsnot]

Good to know. Thanks!!

So, two-turn day! First up, on turn 15 Greece accepts our delegation and offers a Declaration of Friendship. Friendly almost-neighbors are good and even if I'm imagining any sort of good vibes it at least means I won't be the target of Gorgo Culture Raids for a while. Also, get our first set of policies! Slot in Discipline and Urban Planning (thanks Yerevan!)

We queue up another Slinger to prep for the Agoge Settler chop. Once it's 1-turn away we'll crank out another Builder. Now I could get the Builder first but he'd just twiddle his thumbs for a few turns until it's time to chop (the other two charges are to farm and chop at Saunders). So this way I have the Slinger in my back pocket in case of an emergency.

Slinger finishes and since Yerevan's warrior is stubbornly in my way, I pop up to the north hill to watch for barbs. I'm going to have to delay my pasture by an extra turn so that I don't get walloped by overflow bullshit again, so need to make sure the barbs don't surge south in the meantime. 1 for ~2 isn't a horrible tradeoff and at least I'm learning
Warrior goes up to the mountain pass and spies another nice fertile river valley   Thank you, Archduke! I think my only distress from the map is being next to Rome I'm guessing that with 6 players we've got 2 staggered rows of 3, so I had only had a 20% chance of avoiding the Romans anyway. Greece has not met Rome yet, so I'm guessing they're to my southwest. I'm pretty sure Kuromorimine is well within my orbit but I'm less sure about the sugar fields. With a small (74x46 according to some sources) pangaea I don't know the exact land-water ratio, but I'm estimating about 8-10 tile radius for my sphere of influence - if I can claim and hold it anyway

Scores unchanged this turn but we should see a wave of Civic finishes next turn now that everyone without a bump wraps up Code of Laws.

Moving on to turn 16, the barb runs away and denies me a quick Archery boost again. Also, Pantheon next turn The builder doesn't see that barb scout when he moves to the sheep, so in light of the coming decision I have the Slinger scurry over to the west to fogbust the top of Saunders next turn to get a better view of resources available. I goofed with my Warrior, though, and sent him towards the copper hill to look around, when I should have put him in position to cross the river. Oh well 

Also, as expected, everyone has CoL now. I have to run the numbers still but I'd have expected some people to have their 2nd tech by now, if anyone else went for two tier-1 techs like I did. I'm getting Astrology after Animal Husbandry finishes and should have my Great Prophet around turn 60, I think. Respectable but might not beat the Russians, especially if they went for Astro as their 2nd tech. We'll see next turn, I might just be off on when to expect tech 2s to finish.

Still #6!

So! Pantheons! I no longer have any time to postpone this if I want any input
Copypasta from Wikia 'cause I'm lazy:

City Patron Goddess
+25% Production toward districts in cities without a specialty district.
Dance of the Aurora
Holy Site districts get +1 Faith from adjacent Tundra tiles.
Desert Folklore
Holy Site districts get +1 Faith from adjacent Desert tiles.
Divine Spark
+1 Great Person point from Holy Site (Prophet), Campus (Scientist), and Theater Square (Writer) districts.
Earth Goddess
+1 Faith from tiles with Charming or better Appeal.
Fertility Rites
City growth rate is 10% higher.
God of Craftsmen
+1 Production from Mines over Strategic resources.
God of Healing
Increases Healing by +30 in your Holy Site district, or any adjacent tiles.
God of the Forge
+25% Production toward Ancient and Classical military units.
God of the Open Sky
+1 Culture from Pastures.
God of the Sea
+1 Production from Fishing Boats.
God of War
Bonus Faith equal to 50% of the strength of each enemy unit killed within 8 tiles of a Holy Site district you own.
Goddess of Festivals
+1 Food from  Wine,  Incense,  Cocoa,  Tobacco,  Coffee, and  Tea Plantations.
Goddess of the Harvest
Harvesting a resource or removing a feature receives Faith equal to the other yield's quantity.
Goddess of the Hunt
+1 Food from Camps.
Initiation Rites
+50 Faith for each Barbarian Outpost cleared.
Lady of the Reeds and Marshes
+1 Production from Marsh, Oasis, and Floodplains.
Monument to the Gods
+15% Production to Ancient and Classical era Wonders.
Oral Tradition
+1 Culture from  Banana,  Citrus,  Cotton,  Dyes,  Silk,  Spices, and  Sugar Plantations.
Religious Idols
+2 Faith from Mines over Luxury and Bonus resources.
River Goddess
+1 Amenity to cities if they have a Holy Site district adjacent to a River.
Religious Settlements
Border expansion rate is 15% faster.
Sacred Path
Holy Site districts get +1 Faith from adjacent Rainforest tiles.
Stone Circles
+2 Faith from Quarries.

Let's be honest, most of these are pretty bad. Especially for our terrain. Breaking it down into categories:
* Holy Site Adjacency (Dance of the Aurora, Desert Folklore, Sacred Path)
Went from being situationally useful in V to worthless now. River Goddess too for this map since I want my districts next to each other and doesn't really synergize with the rivers.
* Camps, Mines, and Plantations (God of Craftsmen, Religious Idols, Goddess of the Hunt, Goddess of Festivals, Oral Tradition)
Splitting the mine and plantation resources into two different sets makes them difficult to get much out of at the best of times, and our start is definitely lacking. We also, thankfully, are lacking campable resources. Goddess of the Hunt is the only way to make those not weak and brings them up to okay. Can also cross off Lady of the Reeds and Marshes since I don't have any of those tiles, either (aside from 1 marsh).
* Quarries, Pastures, Fishing Boats (Stone Circles, God of the Open Sky, God of the Sea)
Some good bonuses on these. Can obviously rule out God of the Sea, though, since  it will take too long to start using it and will only have ~3. Sadly the same also applies to God of the Open Sky, my frequent favorite. Usually hurting on culture at the start and this can nicely get already-good + tiles pulling triple duty on culture. However, I'm gonna need to harvest Ooarai's sheep to make room for a Campus and so unless Saunders has two critters in the fog I don't think this will pay off. +2 from Quarries is decent, though, with our 4 gypsum. I'm not sure if I would net more faith from Earth Goddess, will have to check how my empire's appeal will be after I chop down the forests
* Small irrelevant misc bonuses: God of Healing, Divine Spark
* Lump bonuses (Goddess of the Harvest, God of War, Initiation Rites)
Can more-or-less discard God of War and Initiation Rites, Goddess of the Harvest is way better and one of the top overall contenders.
* % Bonuses (that probably won't matter) (Fertility Rites, Religious Settlements, City Patron Goddess, Monument to the Gods, God of the Forge)
Fertility Rites is disappointingly bad since it only applies to net food. Similarly Religious Settlements is worthless since slow*1.15=slow. Especially since I'm expecting to have to buy a bunch of tiles. City Patron Goddess is not especially useful as Japan: Hojo's bonus is a +100% mod to HS/TS/Encampment, not half cost, so City Patron would effectively only be a +12.5% bonus. Monument to the Gods and God of the Forge are potentially useful but I don't expect to get enough use out of. And I dislike having a hard expiration date. Forge also suffers from a similar problem to City Patron since I'll be running Agoge for most of the time it applies.
So, what are we left with that doesn't suck? Goddess of the Harvest vs Stone Circles/Earth Goddess (with a small outside chance of God of the Open Sky). I'm not sure if GotH is as ridiculously good without Magnus but it's still really good. I don't think the faith earned gets any of the production bonuses (like Agoge), does it? Also I don't have any frigging Stone or Deer, so I only have forest chops to work with (and one marsh). Probably my top contender. Might be worthwhile over SC/EG just to keep someone better than me at chopping from getting it, and encourage myself to chop more  

(Current appeal for reference)

[Grotsnot]

Ok, once I get my chops done the appeal is gonna plummet. I was mistaken and thought rivers gave a point of appeal but what I've been seeing on the lens along the rivers is actually just from the trees. So the question is whether a consistent 4-8 from Quarries gets more overall than chopping. My first 3 chops planned are worth ~26 each and during that time I'd only be working 1 quarry. The next two come online around turn 40 and I think chop value will be below 50 until turn like 100. I think I have to chop every 8-10 turns to beat quarries after that and I'm not sure that's sustainable. Though maybe if it isn't I have bigger problems? I'd have to be harvesting those wheats to come out ahead and it's also a lot of worker charges. It's still probably worthwhile for denial value but I'm really tempted by Stone Circles. Especially if we find another quarry resource.

[Banzailizard]

What do you think about any of these in terms of denial value? If you are down between 1 or 2 of them because they seem lackluster to you, do any seem like they should be kept out of another civ's hands?

[Grotsnot]

Gotta put together a turn report but went with Goddess of the Harvest

[Grotsnot]

Okay, so yesterday was another 2-turn day

First up, got the pantheon!

Thankfully the pantheon waited a turn or two after CoL so the boost doesn't screw me out of any ...  

Went with Goddess of the Harvest! The meta seems to be favoring it pretty heavily right now and even if I suspect Stone Circles would net slightly more in the long run, it'll encourage me to chop more and overcome my reluctance to harvest resources. Though upon review of the map, I'm not sure how I overlooked this before: I don't have any desert tiles So gonna not gonna be able to even try for the Pyramids   Which, I dunno, maybe is for the best? Won't throw chops and cogs at it only to lose out. Still, the +1 Builder charge would be really useful. As it is I'm going to need to build a lot of Builders to utilize the new Pantheon. Feudalism is a long way off... Maybe there's a desert hiding in the fog around Saunders

Anywho, we've got barbs coming down from the north. Took em long enough, thankfully! I suspect I have Yerevan to thank for that, what a swell bunch. Though it may bite me in the ass and make getting the Bronze Working boost a mad scramble. I reluctantly pull the Slinger back from exploration duty to protect the builder and soon-to-be-Pasture. I also divert the Builder north to the hill in the hope that it will pull the barb warrior onto the forest hill away from the sheep instead of rushing toward me. If they take the bait my Slinger will be able to get the first shot in   He's gonna have a rough enough time of it all by his lonesome, though, even with Discipline. Feeling the pressure to loop the Warrior back home but I would like to find a 3rd city-state first. Or a continent. I'm not banking on getting the FT boost but it sure would be helpful if I want to get PP by Turn 60...

So much river!  

A couple people have hit pop3 now, and Greece has their 2nd tech. One of these days I'll have my domestic spreadsheet ironed out enough I can spare a few hours to crunch my C&D data...

Turn 18:

Interesting, the barb stayed put. With any luck I'll be able to stall fighting them until I get my 2nd Slinger. A long shot since he's not due until turn 25, but still. Teamwork will be much more effective than trading blows one for one. Though the loss of Discipline may make me regret those words

Also, finish Animal Husbandry! Having learned from our bullshit pit trap mistakes, the Pasture is going up next turn so that I don't lose another 2.something to the HBR boost. Slinger goes along to protect it. Getting my nice new development pillaged would be quite unpleasant...

Since the Slinger is going to be occupied for a while, the Warrior is going to loop back at least as much as needed to defog Saunders. I've been holding off posting up build plans in too much detail because the right tile in the fog could mean reworking everything. Let's get that out of the way so I can finalize* plans moving forward.

*at least until someone comes to kick my teeth in

This is some really nice clay! I could even set up a District Synergy Triad over here!! I don't want to stall Kuromorimine too long or else I'll definitely lose out on the Optimistic site below it but this is a mighty tempting valley. The sort of happy discovery I mean when I say I don't want to finalize plans


And we get our 3rd citizen this turn! I pause the Slinger until we can Agoge-chop it into a Settler. And to chop we need a Builder, so naturally it starts on one of those Current plan has Saunders-on-the-Hill settled on T29. Not excellent, but keeping up, I think. And I'll have an extra Builder to show for it. If I stick with the current iteration of The Glorious Fifty-Turn Plan then the capital  will follow up with a 3rd Builder to +100% chop a Holy Site into Settler #2, due approximately Turn 40 (who needs Maritime Industries when you have Hojo ). This will all be horribly delayed when the barbs come wreck my shit and I will be sad, but I can dream for now

Also pictured: Firaxis cannot into Floating Point Math. One of these days the Food calculation bug is gonna cost me a turn on my spreadsheet and the salt will flow

In global news, techs for everyone! Except Marco, must be working on a tier-2 tech? Or maybe he fell into the overflow trap, too  Since I'm at the top of the turn, this means I'm right behind everyone else. And that they 25 techs but hard to say whether it's two starting techs or a boosted tier 2. Which reminds me to suggest No Natural Wonders for the next PBEM... frikkin randomass bollocks. (Not at all that I expect to have found one by now, I've been running a fairly tight exploration pattern, just have bad experience with 'em in SP. It's such a pain to try and plan around and the right ones can produce some nasty swings)

Holy moly, not in last place! Wooo! Hopefully not for the last time

In slightly troubling news, turns out Rome has Gypsum too:

Now balance is nice, and Gypsum is one of the better non-removable resources I could ask for, but if everyone has Gypsum I'm gonna be a little peeved. 'Cause what the heck is the point of having 4 taking up precious district space if I can't frikkin trade it?  Mix it up with some Marble or something!

Also, because I was playing around with the CQUI lenses, here's a 'shot showing that nearly everything I've defogged so far falls into that 8-10 sphere of influence I was boldly asserting last time. Makes settling toward Rome a little more appealing (most likely left of or on the north pin, with an Encampment on the south pin) but I'd have to get eyes on their territory first. And would make the planned Ft Gloriana less useful as a defensive structure. And would not be as high a priority as the western triad. Buuuut then we could fill the isthmus with districts and stretch the megalopolis all the way from Ooarai

Next time (probably!) we'll look at Religions! And hopefully have enough view of the home territory to more confidently assert some milestones.

[Cornflakes]

[...] to +100% chop a Holy Site into Settler #2, due approximately Turn 40 (who needs Maritime Industries when you have Hojo ). [...]

As great as this sounds, that is unfortunately not how Hojo's ability works. The special Japanese districts cost 50% less, it's not a production modifier but a discount to the cost.