Werewolf 7 game thread

[Serdoa]

Thinking about it, you might very well be right on that one. I have probably thought too much in the direction of "as wolf I would try to introduce a thinking for everyone, so I can hide behind it".

[Injera]

You're also right about not voting, that gets us nowhere. I'll put my vote on Injera, both on grounds of activity (looks to me more like laying low, as he comes off as quite certain when he does post, suggesting that he's read up a lot) and because he tripped my radar both days.

I do read up a lot. I don't post a lot because, frankly, often times most of the posts just seem like noise to me and I don't feel I'm really gaining any information that would give me anything interesting to say. Lots of people commented on Roland'ss long post, e.g. but was there really anything in there worth commenting on in terms of catching werewolves? I'm not saying it was a bad thing to have in the thread, and it's clearly important to Roland and zakalwe, but would I be laying less "low" if I gave you the play by play of cracking another beer before reading it?

Additionally, Catwalk, you really might want to examine your "radar." You suspected me the first day because you felt I didn't give enough credence to the idea that uberfish would run an insanely high risk play as a wolf. It was a correct analysis, your take was simply wrong, yet you're still maintaining the suspicion developed from that flawed thinking?

Your radar today pings:

I think Injera's logic is flawed, especially this last post. zakalwe provided very clear reasoning for both his original assessment of uberfish (based on past experience), and the change (based on lack of helpfulness during the day, basically dismissing accusations as idiocy).

I believe zakalwe's reasoning to be suspect; I don't think taking uber's initial post at it's word was logical at all, and even after zak conceded it was more likely to be a village ploy rather than a wolf ploy he continued to paint uber as a "bad villager" and worthy of a lynch, innocence be damned. While uber's defense left a lot left to be desired, the hubris didn't come into play until after zakalwe had then started the landslide on him.

I don't find it to be particularly wolfish behaviour to push this hard for an innocent to hang. If either of us were wolves, it'd be much safer to jump on later and let others take the lead.

"Wolfish" arguments are going to be circular; "not wolfish" is what you can get away with It's easy enough to turn that statement around: given that plenty of people believe zakalwe to be a sure villager right now I don't think you can dismiss his behavior as something a wolf would be afraid to do for fear of being caught.

Moreover, it's not like uberfish was a difficult target. I think that, with the day winding down and not many safe spots for wolves to vote, going after the lowest hanging fruit would be a perfectly wolfish thing to do, especially after making the case he should hang even if he is innocent.

I don't mean it as an insult so I hope you won't take it as such, but how much WW have you played in other settings? If this is your first game you seem very sure of yourself, and I'm getting a feeling you're following wolf orders. If you've played a fair bit elsewhere, please disregard the comment.

For the record, this is the first werewolf game I've ever participated in, though I have lurked most of the RB games. If I sound sure of myself then it's probably because I really try to think things through for myself and believe in what I'm saying. The corollary to this, of course, is that if don't speak up as much it's because I don't want to comment on a whole lot of things without giving it much thought. Hell, the one time I simply posted that I was going to think things over I ended up with 3 votes in 10 minutes.

I can emphatically say that I'm not a wolf, and if I ever am I won't be blindly following orders, inexperienced or not.

And now, since I would love to at least figure out if everyone else thinks I'm completely insane for suspecting zakalwe, let me ask the village: 1) Do you think my suspicions against him have any weight? and 2) If you think zakalwe is basically a strong innocent, what makes you think that?

Until I hear some opinions from the other villagers on that I'm going to put my vote on zakalwe again.

[Injera]

So what might this investigation of "why was Lewwyn night-killed" bring up? Well, just going from memory I could tell you straight away that Lewwyn was suspicious of Sareln, and wanted to go after him today. If Sareln is innocent, he would make a very logical wolf target for a mislynch.

I don't fault the reasoning here at all, and I can say that right after I had answered Erebus's question I got a sense that something was funny about it. That being said, I never really got the sense that Lewwyn was going after Sareln (or anyone for that matter) particularly viciously, but maybe I missed it?

Also, I think the wolves would be more likely to advance this another step (i.e, don't eat someone who's on their trail Day 1) as it would be unlikely for the village to chase it an even further step out.

I would need to look back to find the posts that gave me this impression, but I find myself oscillating pretty wildly on Erebus. It seems about half his posts give me a good villager feeling and the other half make me pretty suspicious. Anyone else feel this?

Here's a question I have re: the night killings. I followed the initial posts in taking it for granted that Lewwyn was the main course, but what if it's the other way around? Would that change anything? Rowain seemed to get in some spats, but his play didn't seem very focused to me.

[Catwalk]

Injera, I do get a villager impression from your post. I still think your uberfish
reasoning is flawed, but you've kept backing it up and continue to do so. That sounds more villager than wolf to me.

Additionally, Catwalk, you really might want to examine your "radar." You suspected me the first day because you felt I didn't give enough credence to the idea that uberfish would run an insanely high risk play as a wolf. It was a correct analysis, your take was simply wrong, yet you're still maintaining the suspicion developed from that flawed thinking?

I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm an amazing wolf hunter, the radar comment was just a way of saying you sounded wolf to me. That said, I don't think your analysis was correct. We had limited information to go on, and a bold wolf gambit didn't sound unplausible given the circumstances. It very nearly did make the village look elsewhere, I think it could be done as a wolf. I still think it's a horrible villager play, and I didn't think an experienced player would make such a play. We probably won't ever agree on this one, if you want to drop the matter I'm fine with dropping it too. I don't suspect you of being a wolf anymore on those grounds. If you want to keep it a bit more, that's okay too

I believe zakalwe's reasoning to be suspect; I don't think taking uber's initial post at it's word was logical at all, and even after zak conceded it was more likely to be a village ploy rather than a wolf ploy he continued to paint uber as a "bad villager" and worthy of a lynch, innocence be damned. While uber's defense left a lot left to be desired, the hubris didn't come into play until after zakalwe had then started the landslide on him.

Last comment on this (promise): zakalwe thought he was a bad villager all along, and didn't particularly suspect him of being wolf. uberfish mostly brought that on by himself. In the post where zakalwe suggested a "lynch all liars" policy, he was still leaning towards uberfish being innocent. It was made before uberfish made his second post explaining he was trolling for information. Accusing zakalwe based on that post doesn't seem credible to me, but I'll accept that you're doing so on basis of our stark disagreement about the uberfish gambit.

For the record, this is the first werewolf game I've ever participated in, though I have lurked most of the RB games. If I sound sure of myself then it's probably because I really try to think things through for myself and believe in what I'm saying. The corollary to this, of course, is that if don't speak up as much it's because I don't want to comment on a whole lot of things without giving it much thought. Hell, the one time I simply posted that I was going to think things over I ended up with 3 votes in 10 minutes.

Again, please don't take that the wrong way. I'm quite the newbie myself (having only played live WW games before, with much less information to digest), so I'm shooting at myself if anything. I play much by feeling to be honest, there's too much information for me to process rationally. Maybe that's why I seem to keep appearing wolfish, even when I don't try to

I'm going to parrot zakalwe and vote for Erebus, I think the raised points about the vig comment are reasonable and I think he has a fairly high fluff ratio.

[Sareln]

Will add my own comments after this post.

Day 2 Lynch Tally

3v: Scooter (MNG, Meiz, Serdoa)
2v: JKaen (Erebus, Scooter)
2v: Erebus (Zakalwe, Injera)
1v: Ichabod (Gaspar)
1v: Injera (Catwalk)

9/14 voting.

Not Voting: Ichabod, JKaen, Sareln, Twinkletoes, Roland

History:

1. Erebus votes for JKaen
   
2. Scooter votes for JKaen
   
3. MNG votes Scooter
   
4. Gaspar votes for Ichabod
   
5. Serdoa votes Sareln
   
6. Meiz votes for Scooter
   
7. Serdoa switches from Sareln to Scooter
   
8. Catwalk votes for Injera
   
9. Zakalwe votes for Erebus
   
10. Injera votes for Zakalwe
    
11. Catwalk switches from Injera to Erebus

[Meiz]

That being said, I never really got the sense that Lewwyn was going after Sareln (or anyone for that matter) particularly viciously, but maybe I missed it?

He was quite clearly asking Ichabod to continue to press Sareln on the next day.

It seems about half his posts give me a good villager feeling and the other half make me pretty suspicious. Anyone else feel this?

That's a very accurate description

[Serdoa]

I don't have zak clearly in the villager camp, by no means. And your post strenghtens my feelings Injera. zak is too silent for my taste, given the lack of postings from anyone. But hey, he might sit in front of his computer and just wait for people to post so I am still leaning more towards villager who is stunned from the sheer absence of postings as I am.

[Serdoa]

Oh, and I am ok with voting

Erebus

If he is a villager, his death will at least have me look much more closely at zak again.

[Ichabod]

I wanted to write a post with my thoughts on day 1 now, but I spent too much time reading the new comments and I don't have enough time to do it anymore. But I have some questions to make to some of the players and it's better to do it soon. I'll do the post later.

I'm sorry if the questions are hard to understand. Like I said, the idea was to have a post explaining them further, but hopefully it won't be a problem:

@Zakalwe: You suspected Sareln on some of your posts on day 1. Later you voted for Uberfish and gave your reasons, while I voted for Sareln and gave my reasons. Now you suspect Sareln again. Why didn't you comment anything about my Sareln vote? I got the feeling that you weren't so sure on Uberfish being guilty (maybe I'm mistaken), so I wonder why you didn't say anything more about Sareln after I voted.

It seemed to me that the Sareln discussion disappeared after Uberfish got enough votes. So I ask the same thing to Roland and Gaspar, because they also suspected Sareln.

@Meiz: There was a moment on day 1 that a scooter bandwagon happened, with 3 quick votes. On post 198 (coupled with post 176) you seemed to really suspect Scooter (even though you didn't vote for him, post 176 shows that you wanted to), even dismissing the post that he made that, in my eyes, made the bandwagon disperse.

After that, you present your suspects on post 218, saying that you suspect TT, Uberfish and Lewwyn, leaving scooter out. I don't see any comments by scooter between this posts that would make someone change his mind.

Now, you are back at scooter. What made you change your mind to not suspect and then suspect scooter again?

[Sareln]

On the Night Kills:

Rowain and Lewwyn dead in the night, we don't know who did which (Vigilante and Wolves).

Lewwyn was clearly innocent in my mind because of his taunting comments to me earlier in day 1. I just can't see a wolf trying to get a villager to fly off the handle at them (too dangerous) and I'm pretty sure that's what Lewwyn was trying to get me to do. To be honest, I was pretty steamed during that back and forth, so he nearly met with success there; for all the good it would've done the village...

Looking over Rowain's comments from Day 1, I'm not seeing a good reason to kill him as either Wolves or Vigilante. Given that the wolves have a 4-person commitee to decide their kill, I'd be more inclined to chalk it up to a poor vigilante stuck in his own echo chamber, rather than the night kill.

So my hypothesis is that Lewwyn was night-killed because he was sending strong villager vibes and his death could help frame his argument partner (me, always under suspicion after day 1), and Rowain was killed by the vigilante for who knows what reason.

Might as well cut the post here before I start responding to the rest of the thread.