Micromanagement Sims/Planning

[kalin]

Wow, lots of good discussion here.

I was thinking too about GPs and there are a couple of ideas I wanted to throw out there. They revolve around our ability to easily generate prophets. The general question is how useful do people think additional shrines are? There is Confucianism, Christianity, and even Taoism and later Divine Right that we could get. This being said here are two ideas:

* We could bulb Theology, then get a shrine. The additional benefit of this is AP. We will be spreading at least Hindu widely, so AP and the other religious wonders UoS and Spiral Minaret have appeal to us.

* If we go Oracle-Currency, we'll have the 2 prerequisites for CoL making it cheaper and we could maybe get Confu. There are some organized teams there that may be also going for it, but I think we'll have a decent chance of getting there first in which case a 2nd-3rd prophet can become a shrine.

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this.

Kalin

[novice]

Second shrine is probably not worth it. The secondary religion must be spread by missionaries, so it's 40 hammers now for 1gpt. (2gpt with multipliers). Plus the GP for the shrine, which at the very least must beat 2hpt5gpt from a settled priest. So ignoring the shrine and building wealth instead of missionaries comes out on top.

Using priests for bulbs is an option, although golden ages are probably better if we can time them correctly. We can bulb Theology, and also Civil Service after Theo if we ignore Monarchy (to block Divine Right).

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Second shrine is probably not worth it. The secondary religion must be spread by missionaries, so it's 40 hammers now for 1gpt. (2gpt with multipliers). Plus the GP for the shrine, which at the very least must beat 2hpt5gpt from a settled priest. So ignoring the shrine and building wealth instead of missionaries comes out on top.

Using priests for bulbs is an option, although golden ages are probably better if we can time them correctly. We can bulb Theology, and also Civil Service after Theo if we ignore Monarchy (to block Divine Right).

I think the initial plan toward Monarchy still has great appeal. I believe we will get much more benefit from a size 14 (etc) by T100 then anything we could achieve by blocking Monarchy/HR. Cottages + multiplier buildings in that one, delicious city >>> a one time bulb benefit.

[T-hawk]

A second religion is never worth it (except culture victory). The first religion gives you the +1 happy plus all the benefits of the state religion civic - so for Org Rel, it's like getting a forge for 40 hammers. :thumbsup The second religion gives +1 culture - so it's like getting a monument for 45 hammers (factoring in the missionary failure chance.)

A first shrine is great, free money because you're spreading a religion anyway, and it quickly overtakes the opportunity cost of a settled prophet or even academy. A second shrine is never worth it, 45 missionary hammers for each 1-2 gpt, there are plenty of things with a better payout ratio such as courthouses and libraries and markets.

I agree on the consensus. Just take the free prophet for the shrine and don't go through crazy contortions for a scientist/academy. It will come in time, once we have some GPP multipliers.

[scooter]

I'm also on board with a golden age with the 2nd prophet. That'll give us an opportunity to push out a scientist during that golden age for an Academy anyways. As long as we can build MoM before then, we're fine.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

What are our thoughts on the Great Library? Should we pursue it? If yes, where would we ideally (in a perfect world) place it? Is this location practical in terms of getting it built in an appropriate time frame?

For me, perfect world scenerio is GL in AO. I LOVE maximized cities, whether commerce, production, or GP. I want every multiplier building in AO and to never have to put a barracks there. The difficulty is getting the hammers there, because we'll be starved for production while growing it because we won't whip or work the hills. I could also see our Clam City being a good GP farm, even with all cottaged FPs, and so the GL being a good fit there with NE. But, production would be worse there, unless we whip/overflow for eternity. I don't think that is practical for getting it done in a reasonable amount of time.

Mausoleum, I'm guessing FP? Lots of forests there waiting for the blade. Doesn't really matter where it goes.

[Sullla]

I think we might be getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. Let's make sure that our current Oracle plan gets executed before we start making elaborate plans for what to do with our free Great Prophets and what other wonders we're going to build.

I went through SevenSpirits' micro plan today, and I am very impressed. We are doing a rather ridiculous level of tile swaps and juggling food/production to maximize the growth of our cities. The way in which our fourth city gets up and running immediately with three quick forest chops is beautiful to watch. I think this will be hard to beat. Here were my minor thoughts after running through the plan:

* Do we want the second workboat immediately in Jesus city? It goes unused for a little while, until clams spot can pop borders.

* T64 micro, what if we have Mansa's Muse work the river plains cottage NW of the city, and give Focal Point the new grassland cottage? It would allow us to avoid the one turn working the 1/2 plains forest. Does this mess anything up, or am I missing something?

* T66 micro, do we have any interest in swapping the grassland cottage to Focal Point and the second plains cottage (SW of Mansa's Muse) over to Mansa? They are the opposite in the current micro plan. Might let Focal Point regrow slightly faster after its whip.

But more generally speaking, I'm going to play the current turn with the first stage of this micro plan. Heading off to do that now.

[NobleHelium]

The early second work boat is useful for sure. We can scout the southwest coast with it. The current plan doesn't have any units available to scout much in the south.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

The early second work boat is useful for sure. We can scout the southwest coast with it. The current plan doesn't have any units available to scout much in the south.

This. We won't know anything else in that direction until T78 when borders pop unless we send the axe completing in FP on T68 (by T72 we could have a unit leaving our borders SW of Clam City). Otherwise we don't have a garrison in all of our cities.

[SevenSpirits]

* Do we want the second workboat immediately in Jesus city? It goes unused for a little while, until clams spot can pop borders.

As NH says, yes. A few extra turns of free scouting is just what we want.

* T64 micro, what if we have Mansa's Muse work the river plains cottage NW of the city, and give Focal Point the new grassland cottage? It would allow us to avoid the one turn working the 1/2 plains forest. Does this mess anything up, or am I missing something?

I'm a bit confused by this. First, it looks to me like MM is in fact working the new plains cottage, since FP is also working a plains cottage (therefore it's the one they share). Second, I believe you are referring to a 2/1 forest worked by FP rather than the completely unrelated 1/2 forest worked by MM, and suggesting that the new grass cottage S of MM could maybe allow FP to grow with one less turn working a forest? Problem is, it's already grown to 6 on t64, in order to get the axe out. So I'm not quite sure what the idea is here; you'll have to clarify it if wasn't just a mistake.

* T66 micro, do we have any interest in swapping the grassland cottage to Focal Point and the second plains cottage (SW of Mansa's Muse) over to Mansa? They are the opposite in the current micro plan. Might let Focal Point regrow slightly faster after its whip.

Giving FP more food in the last three turns is a possibility. The reason I went with working a plains cottage there for the last three turns, is it completes the axe (and, perhaps relevantly, does so on the turn of growth). This is something we could revisit when we near the end of this plan, and start to think about what we're doing next.