[SPOILERS] Will the Sun(rise) Ever Set on Washington, Mongolia?

[Whosit]

It doesn't look like I took a screenshot that captures it, but Grimace's empire looks really spread out. Was his land that bad that he needed to do this, or was he just bad at city placement? (Says the guy who has awful city placement.)

[GermanJoey]

Also, let's talk about how the Zulu have at least, what, 12 swordsmen that pop with C1 and CR1! That's nice. Stop being at war with people that don't matter so I can bribe you to go to war against CH!! Sheesh. With our power combined, we could carve him into pieces and rule the world together! I really wish some basic diplo was available.

Did you ever watch Captain Planet as a kid? I've got this image now: "With your powers combined, I... *voice radically lowers and distrots* will carve them into little pieces."

I kinda wish I knew why my GNP was so bad.

Well, I can't comment on specifics, like how you're doing compared to other people, but I will say that a low GNP number doesn't actually mean too much on its own. For instance, GNP includes culture, so Cre civs and wonder-spammers will tend to have a higher GNP than those without, at least in the early game. In addition, your GNP will always be far higher on full slider than when saving gold. There's two reasons for this. The first is that GNP is only a metric of how much commerce-stuff (beakers, gold, culture, and espionage) you have as income and does not subtract your expenses. So, if you're using a full 100% slider via a gold reserve, your GNP will include all those beakers but not the -gpt from your expenses. Second of all, techs get various bonuses from having prerequisites and from other players knowing them. For example, set your slider to 100% and then check your GNP on F9. Then close the window, switch techs, and check your GNP again. It will be probably be different! Researching a tech with a huge Known Tech Bonus and multiple prereqs could potentially increase your GNP 3x-4x over your gold-saving rate.

If you're concerned about improving your GNP, the easiest way would be to obtain a certain wonder that's said to provide a passive commerce boost in all of one's cities adjacent to the shore... Otherwise, if you think your income is pretty good (working lots of cottages, foreign routes, etc), the other place to look for improvement would be your expenses. How are they looking?

[novice]

Just from skimming, I think you're right to go for the GLH. I wouldn't even have deleted that chariot.

It could be hard to defend the GLH city unless you can take his capital, so you may need reinforcements. Worst case you'll just have to let him recapture though. I still think it's worth a shot.

Your GNP will be suffering right now from unit costs and unit supply.

[Whosit]

Did you ever watch Captain Planet as a kid? I've got this image now: "With your powers combined, I... *voice radically lowers and distrots* will carve them into little pieces."

Yeah, I watched Captain Planet. Hahahaha!

Re: Deleted Chariot. In what circumstances is it wise or appropriate to delete a unit? I was under the impression that vulnerable units should be deleted to avoid giving XP to an enemy. In this circumstance, was it just not that much of a worry? I suppose keeping the Chariot could have proven to be either a distraction or I might have found some opportunity for it?

@GJ & novice: Hummm.... you both make excellent points re: The Great Lighthouse. Too bad I withdrew my reinforcements..... (Again, note to self, maybe don't play a war turn like this in a hurry.) If I get a shot at it this coming turn, Yamato is going to burn. If I don't capture it now, Grimace will no doubt stuff it full of spears, and I'll take a higher casualty rate than I can afford right now. I imagine some of my reasoning here is simply being made to justify the moves I've already taken, but as far as improving my economy goes, I'm placing my hopes in the territory I'll capture from CH (a good portion of which has some nicely developed cottages) rather than a hard-to-hold Wonder that's already halfway through its useful lifespan. If I had actually gone into this fight with the intention of capture, though.....

Costs, I can grab a screen of that next time, and I suppose I'll see what my GNP looks like at 100% on different techs. I am pretty sure that my total costs right now are north of 200 gpt. I've got a few courthouses now (note to self, adjust EP spending again), but not enough to really reign in the city costs by much, plus last I looked even Civic costs were in the upper 70s, and yeah, Unit and Supply costs are going up.

One final note regarding the GLH: I feel I can at least give myself one bit of credit. When I was preparing for this strike, I kept telling myself "no going for the GLH, it 's too far of a reach. Don't try to capture it." At the very least, I'm following the objectives I laid out for myself, heh.

[Whosit]

Since I logged in to pause anyway....



Things are looking... dicey.

And checked with science slider:

CS @ 0% = 140
CS @ 100% = 258 (vs 429 1st place me at 4th)
Construction @ 100% = 288
MC @ 100% = 303 (can 1 turn, 3rd place)
Compass @ 100% = 229, 4th

I'm guessing everyone has MC, hence the big bonus. I've no idea where everyone has their tech set right now, but it seems I can tech at a decent clip if I ever could afford to. My high costs are the real restriction right now. If I ever player another MP game, I think I might definitely take ORG as a trait.

[Whosit]

In case you ever read this far into my thread, Grimace, kudos to playing your turn swiftly, even if it was just a happenstance of time slots. So, I popped in to see what was going on, thinking this time I'd just look and take a moment to consider my actions. Well... I didn't need much time to consider.



This wouldn't be that scary of a stack if I had my whole Keshik force to bring to bear, but I'm obviously not cracking that city defense this turn, and I'm not ready to commit the numbers I'd need to crack it in the next 5 turns. I put my men back on the ships, sailed back towards port, and offered Grimace peace. Now all I can do is hope that he accepts rather than fight a grudge war.

Perhaps I'll make a play for Yamato again some day, but I'll never catch it undefended again. The first thing I'm going to do when my captured city comes out of revolt is to whip walls, then I'll put a theatre in.



All those pretty Keshiks need to be pointing at CH very, very soon. I want my battle with HRE to be over before the treaty with Grimace expires (assuming he accepts). Question: I accidentally went back into the diplo screen with Grimace after sending the peace offer and saw "cease fire" on the table. Did I invalidate the peace offer I sent?

In other news:



Popped another one!

[Whosit]

For consideration: As much as I need to get into Bureau already, I might spend the cash to 1-turn MC so that Soos can push out a Trireme or two. I imagine the Pacific waters are going to be tense, and I wouldn't mind having a couple of promoted ship killers floating around to remind Grimace not to mess with me. Finally being able to throw down workshops wouldn't be so bad, either.

I also offered Open Borders to Elum. After seeing my income get a small but noticeable boost from my new routes with Johns, I don't really care if he's in the lead. I need more cash! Though the demos say that my exports-imports are -53, suggesting other civs are earning more off of me than I am from them, but I don't know if that matters much.

[Commodore]

Wow, that was a fast defense. Stonewall-in-the-valley time, eh?

[Whosit]

It's possible he was reacting as soon as he saw my fleet. At the time I forgot he wasn't in slavery and couldn't whip. It might be that my earlier theory was correct, that most of his forces were closer to the Persian border than to mine. I still lack complete maps of Korean territory, but maybe that's where he pulled those units from. If he tries to attack me, it won't go so well, I imagine. Pretty sure that 20-some Keshiks would obliterate that stack if it came at me.

Once again thankful that I didn't play the full turn, I think I'll take this opportunity to pillage another road leading towards my captured city.

Of course, maybe Grimace will just accept peace and we can all go about our business again. I'm sure he's feeling squeezed, but I don't think coming after me now would be a smart move. 'Course, if he's seeing red, it's not about smart moves. I'll learn the answer some time tomorrow.

[Whosit]

So, it appears that Grimace did not accept peace. I sent the offer again, on the off chance that something went wrong, but it appears that he is going to be... difficult. I wonder if things would have been different if I had just offered peace on the first turn of the war instead of trying to make that poke at Yamato. Oh well. It's obnoxious, but it looks like I'm going to be forced to alter my plans and prepare for a longer war with Korea.



That Galley could be a problem. I don't know if there are units on board (but I should assume there are). Maybe he just wants to pillage that fish before I get it, but I'm going to have to put 3 Keshiks into Durland to make sure it doesn't get raided. And also cover that jungle worker. I might want to send another Worker or two south of Durland to speed up that Fort. I think I'll produce 2-3 Triremes out of Soos before resuming Keshiks because I may want to go Galley hunting. I also think that I'm going to have to burn/capture a few more of his cities so that he gets the message.



If I land some Keshiks on those hills, I can attack AGS. 2W of the city is probably best to keep the Keshiks safe from spears. I could land in a position to fork AGS and Yamato, but really, what's the point of that? I probably can't crack Yamato without shipping over the Swordsmen I've been producing, but I can burn AGS and maybe some of his island cities north of the isthmus to tell him that I still mean business. I'll need the fort complete so I can shift my fleet in that direction, of course.

I've been keeping my 1-mover force near Wendy in anticipation of the attack on CH, and I'm loathe to move them now, but I might have to pull some Swords and Axes out to add to my striking power. Maybe, maybe Grimace will accept my new peace overtures, but I think it's unlikely.

I haven't actually finished the turn yet. I may do that tonight or wait for the morning.