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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread
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Hope I didn't step on any toes by speaking for our team in the discussion thread about city-gifting, Woden, but I thought we made our feelings in the thread pretty clear. Let me know if you disagree with my stance (ie city-gifting is cheesy and exploitative and should be avoided).
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
I agree with you, CMF!
The current discussion might be good for us in game. As far as I can tell, Singaboy and TheArchduke should be direct neighbors and there seems to be some bad blood between them. So, they may go after each other once they figure that out for themselves. This hopefully will give us a quiet front in the southeast while we focus on Khmer/Kongo. Something to think about.
I think after PBEM2, 4, and now this, Singaboy and Archduke are irritated with each other. It'll be fun to see what happens when they make contact - I can't believe neither one has scouted the other yet! I want to see the land bridge there, maybe there's a good reason I made it to China before China's next-door neighbor did.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
So, with no turn today (turn's been with Emperor for 8 hours, it might work from him to Sullla to Woden to me before bedtime, but more likely not), I want to take a moment to re-litigate PBEM4 here in the thread. I'm not going to post this to the discussion thread, because a)it's totally off-topic, no one cares except the Archduke, oledavy, and myself, and b)it'd just inflame passions more, and we don't need that over a comparatively minor bit of cheese, and c)this way Woden at least can respond.
Okay, so Archduke is still upset because 3 months ago, during the closing days of PBEM4, oledavy traded a city to Singaboy in the midst of the world war that concluded the PBEM. Archduke insists that it was specifically to screw him on the occupation rules, keeping Singaboy alive so England couldn't lift the penalties on the conquered German cities, thereby ensuring Japan's victory. I contend this is not so. Triton, rather than a cheesy move to keep Germany in the game, was purely an economic move. At the time, Dave was fielding a massive fleet - as has been said elsewhere, perhaps the most massive in Civ VI multiplayer history. Generating the gold to support dozens upon dozens of frigates, ironclads, and submarines was a tough proposition. Dave had been running every single trader he had to Lisbon - however (I forget specifics) either Woden was Lisbon's suzerain, or Woden was going to be able to pillage all of Dave's trade routes once war broke out between them. So he rerouted his traders to Toronto, just across the straits from him in former Norwegian territory. Now, as it happened, Archduke was able to use his massive (free) army of swords and muskets he had received as part of the peace deal in the first war with Germany to retake Toronto, once again destroying Dave's trade routes and threatening to sink his economy into utter ruin. To counter this, with no city-states really left on the map, Dave needed a trading partner in relatively safe waters where he could send his convoys without risk of them being pillaged by roving Brazilian or English ships. The solution he hit upon was Triton: A marginal city, conquered from the Spanish, protected by Japanese islands on most sides. He offered this city to Singaboy in return for desperately needed gold and luxuries (war weariness was reaching crippling levels after the Japanese fleet was slaughtered in the Battle of the North Sea), then routed all his traders there. In other words, it was purely an economic move. Singaboy was not gifted the city, he bought the city in a mutually beneficial trade between two partners. It wasn't to keep Singaboy alive - the city was vulnerable and all but undefended, as Woden proved by razing it a few turns later (right around the time he lost his own fleet, I believe), it was entirely aimed at keeping the Japanese economy afloat and generating the gold for battleship upgrades. Here's the relevant posts from Dave's thread: (November 11th, 2017, 12:58)oledavy Wrote: I went ahead and offered the previously discussed deal to Singaboy. Hopefully he accepts, or at least sends a counter-offer. (November 11th, 2017, 13:46)oledavy Wrote: Turns 166-167 At the time, I noted that Archduke would probably object, because of the occupation rules. Somewhat optimistically, I thought he might change his opinion once he had access to Dave's thread: (November 11th, 2017, 13:52)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: oh man the updates keep rolling. (November 11th, 2017, 14:01)oledavy Wrote:(November 11th, 2017, 13:52)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Not to mention the benefits to diplomacy with Singaboy, although I suspect Archduke may whine, thinking you're giving it to him to prevent Germany being totally conquered so he can get those cities out of occupation. So yeah. That's just about all the relevant data on the issue. I'm biased as Dave's dedlurker from that game, but it was not at all a move like swapping cities back and forth to abuse civilizational traits. Triton was a one-time move in response to a specific situation that is unlikely to be repeated in the near future, the city-swapping is something that every team would have to abuse in order to stay competitive if it were allowed - that's the difference, in my mind. This game has had a LOT of drama and it's barely 60 turns in. Jeez.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
From my prospective, at the time it looked like a fairly cheesy move, even if Singaboy did buy it (at a fairly discounted price). It allowed oledavy to fund his massive navy and didn't really help Sigaboy that much other than give him potential life support as TheArchduke was taking his cities for a second time. It really didn't matter much because I razed the thing shortly after, so in the end it didn't make much difference. Much like here, there was no rule against it, so all is fair in love and war!
Anyways, I think the main issue here is the tone of Singaboy's post, he kind of seemed a little high and mighty..."we do feel, we don't want cheesy stuff in RB multiplayer games." I could see how that is getting under TheArchduke's skin a little after the cluster fuck of game that was PBEM4. Part of me wonders if it has anything to do with the German (Singaboy) telling the Austrian (TheArchduke) how the game should be? I don't know much about the German-Austrian relationship but could see an added dynamic there. I am sure TheArchduke will calm down and we move beyond yet another road block. Now, let's all hope the game still works after tomorrow night! 
Nubia-Turn 61
OMG, did Emperor K make me wait today. It always seems that on turns you look forward too, the game gets delayed for this or that. Well, I can't blame the guy if the client doesn't tell him it is his turn, especially with the blow up of activity in the game's thread and slew of email notifications today. I can see how an email might get lost in the shuffle. Oh well, at least I got to play before going to bed. Start the turn with... Immediately put the envoy into Valletta for 2 envoys and +2  for units at the capital. Then I switch policies...I swap the 2-for-1 card for the +50% Settlers. I was thinking maybe Urban Planning because my cities are building builders right now but I don't want to delay settlers any longer than necessary and the turn of extra production is better than 3 turns of +1 . Now for what I have been anxious about, what happened at Kandy... WTF, killed my goddamn warrior. Well, it was the red lined one so that is good. Hit the city with 2 archers... Removing all of the city's health. Then follow it up with the warrior and... Kandy is mine! Empire score increases 11 points. I renamed the city Nu-Kandy. A look inside... Damage grainery and monument plus intact Holy Site and Shrine. Just realized one of the workers is working the Holy Site and not the farm. I will have to remember to change that next turn. Need this city to grow so I can get a Campus. Lastly, I took a look inside Thoth... The city will take forever to grow without at least 1 2  tile, so I bought the sheep. Brought the pop growth from 4 turns to 2. That should help a little. Should help finish the Encampment sooner when it is chopped in 2 turns. Growth curve will start to pick up steam from here on out. Both builders at Amon and Isis will be done in 2 turns, then they will both start a settler and the builders will chop some jungle and improve tiles to speed up growth/production. The jungle chop at Isis will go into a discounted Campus and should take a big chunk out of it (~30/60). Should only take a few turns to complete after the chop. Exciting times are coming, so stay tuned!
The Patch notes have been released and not much in major changes that I could see will break the game. The only issues I may see are that population now provide 0.5
 , instead of 0.7. I didn't see anything related to trade routes or city state bonuses moving to the first tier buildings. One change that will impact our strategy is that GG/GA not longer stack, so we may have to plan a multi-army strategy, instead of a super-powered singular army. Anti-cavalry now benefit from Agoge, so that is good. Pillaging farms now only provide 50% health, good for defense, bad for attacking. Overall, I didn't see too much that will change the dynamic of this game. Looks promising that it won't break the game and we can continue after tonight. Here's to keeping our fingers crossed!
Turn 61
Turn came in late last night, but I was able to squeeze it in this morning before work to keep the save moving. It's already back around to Sullla, so as long as I can hit my pre-work window (which I think of as my backup), we should be able to maintain our pace even when some people hold the save for 9 hours. >  (I kid, I kid, this game isn't nor should it be anyone's first priority. Sometimes life happens, yanno?)Anyway, I have the leisure for a proper score report this time! Archduke and Emperor's city push have vaulted them past me in empire score, but I'm about to add two cities and crank out 6 quick districts, so we'll see how the scores look in about 10 turns. Woden and I's science rate lags slightly, our culture more severely, but we're not too badly off - only Rome is blowing us out of the water at this point, with China riding his coattails. You can see our position starting to weaken, but we're in the midst of a big infrastructure boom that should start to pay off soon. My basic position right now is that I am taking the score and our lagging in some metrics seriously, but still think we're in good shape. Most of our opponent's cities are size 1, which means they're just planted. Now, Emperor and Archduke each planted 2 cities recently, which means one of two things must happen. 1)Either there's a pause while they train up new settlers - they only had two cities apiece to train settlers before this, planting their third cities about 10 turns ago - so my current settler/Kabul push equalizes things. 2)They keep building settlers and settling - in which case my infrastructure will catch up theirs as I crash build harbors and campuses in my cities. Either way, while they're a little ahead of me on the curve right now, I'll quickly catch up and I don't see how they can continue to leave me behind. As for Japper/Cornflakes, same analysis, but they only have 2 decent cities between them. My science rate has already passed Cornflakes with no infrastructure, and soon culture will blow past them once I get Nan Madol on my side - and that's with no monuments! China isn't that far ahead once you factor out the wonders - same city-count, in fact, with similar populations. Rome is a bit ahead of me even after that, but the culture gap will have closed significantly, and I'll start raking in more gold with my districts. On to turn 61. Foreign news first, the scout reveals that it's all bleak tundra in the north, whodathunk:  Might defog a bit more of the continent - see if that city of Sullla's in on the coast over there in the east - and then pillage the road to see if they murder my scout. If not, eh, well, didn't lose anything. Further scouting on Relic's continent finds Khmer's second city:  A tundra plant, with wheat and iron - and sadly probably Cornflake's best option. There's NO fresh water between here and Lake Malta way in the north, and any coastal cities will run afoul of my navy. He'll probably plant one near Jutland's site soon, but I'll take it if I can get it. He's also preparing for round 2 with us, building an encampment to cover the river opposite his capital. I'm not sure if that's the best spot, but I can't see half the tiles so what do I know. Tactically, the encampment looks easy to isolate and destroy, or to bypass and attack his capital from the north around the mountain, like we did with Aranyaka. I would have planted it two tiles northwest, I think. Other news: I chop jungle in Trafalgar, finishing a builder and getting a 30% boost into my campus:  The new builder toddles off to Aboukir's future site, where I'll mine the iron, farm the wheat, and plantation either the silk or tea. The current builder has one charge left - I'll use it to chop out the campus (via Agoge-warrior, already ready to go) on the forested hill next turn. Next steps are to build a new, er, builder, who will mine the hill and then either head for Salamis or spend two more charges setting up a feudalism diamond (the tiles for that are left as an exercise for the reader). At Salamis, my army draws near Kabul. D-Day is set for Turn 65, sooner if I can get everyone in position:  Battle plan is simple and straightforward. The archers will take position across the bay and provide fire support, while the warriors will assume blocking positions northwest and east of the city (on the forested hill and the wheat), which will place it under siege when combined with a galley in the bay. The galley will lead the attack, with the warriors following up. Next turn I can rotate out the wounded galley and send in a fresh one to continue to pound away, and I should be able to capture the city in 2-3 turns. Final news of the turn comes from Leyte:  I grab my first whales! Next turn I will sail over to the crabs, turn after that, purchase crabs and finish Celestial Navigation. Dockyards can begin construction turn 63! I'm short builders...might need to send the new build one down to Salamis instead, I can forgo the wheat farm for a little bit at Aboukir. Hmmm... Anyway, that's my turn. Woden, I'm going to need a small gift of about 10 gold to buy the crabs tiles. I'll get you hard numbers in my next turn and send the request.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Turn 62
Apart from one notable event, a quiet turn 62 as we set up our districtsplosion and the conquest of Kabul. Maybe a score report later, but as players do more and more each turn, the scores get harder to track, and it takes longer to update. I'm not sure if I can maintain the every-turn pace I've set, especially seeing as I've already slipped several times and I (perhaps foolishly) said I could handle another PBEM. Gameplay-wise, I totally can - I find myself between turns with nothing to do but obsess over this game - but I didn't consider how tough it'd be to thoroughly report two games at once. I'll do my best, but, uh, no promises. This game will retain my top priority. Anyway, on to my turn. Military movements were slim. My army slowly curls around Kabul, covering only one tile per turn due to the thick hills and jungle around the city. Still on track to start hitting the city turn 65 and have it conquered by turn 68, though:  A second archer has appeared. I wonder if I ought to declare war early and wipe one of those archers on the first turn of the war. I need to defeat as much of Kabul's field army as possible outside the city - the archer inside will already be a huge pain the butt. I also need to consider what I'll do if another warrior is on the unscouted eastern outskirts of the city. I have another warrior coming out of Trafalgar next turn, who can probably participate (if delayed) in the assault, and an archer a few turns later out of Salamis (once I get the builder in place to chop him!), so waiting is more certain - but I need to go fast! Gotta close the gap with other civilizations! I'll wait 'til I can see the other side before I decide how much force I need. My scout found nothing of interest, merely the other side of the peninsula:  Boring. Maybe Lisbon or Rome's city is more exciting. The exploration of Relic doesn't reveal anything interesting, either:  Plains and tundra, as far as the eye can see. Maybe I can glimpse Cornflakes' capital, that might be fun. I'll try and do that. Japper's also got another city in the fog somewhere, I can't seem to spot the borders, though. It must be in the south, probably along this river. Lots of tundra settles in this game! This is why the early competition for land was so important, and a big part of why I feel good about our chances going forward. Anyway, the big news of the turn is City #5, Aboukir Bay:  First, ugh, I forgot how horrible the default city screen is. CQUI's maker said he would work this weekend to get the mod updated for R&F, but made no promises. That man is a hero. Anyway. This city is really nice. First ring wheat, silk, and tea, with some hills for mining. Second ring iron, rice, a marsh, and more hills and forests for chopping. It immediately starts contributing culture and will soon add science from the tea - both of which I can trade to Woden to bump him up to 3 amenities (with his tobacco). The builder from Trafalgar is arriving on the scene, but I think I am going to divert him to Salamis to chop out the RND there. Aboukir needs to buy the RND tile, and I don't have the cash for that yet. Cash flow will improve as the harbors come out, though, so I'm prioritizing that for now. Woden, I forgot to offer the deal, but I need a loan of a measly 5 gold to afford the crabs tile next turn (although feel free to check my math - 57 gold, making 14, pretty sure I need 75 total).
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Actually, scratch that, Woden - I don't need Celestial Nav right this moment, since I need a worker at Salamis and to set up chops at Actium, Leyte, and Aboukir before I can build the RNDs, so there's no rush. I can generate the gold naturally.
To set up chops - Salamis: Has archer ready, needs a builder (en route) Actium: Has a builder in 2 turns, needs a galley (6 turn build time) Leyte: Has a builder, working on another. Should switch to a galley (also probably 6 turns? Need to check). Aboukir: Working on a builder, can't build a galley. Maybe switch to an archer or warrior (7 turn build time). Trafalgar: Needs to finish the campus with a chop next turn, then start kicking out more builders.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. |
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