June 16th, 2013, 01:19
(This post was last modified: June 16th, 2013, 01:20 by mostly_harmless.)
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(June 16th, 2013, 00:15)spacetyrantxenu Wrote: We traded ivory to the Spanish before the war started. They pillaged our cottage after it was inside the BFC of one of our cities.
This!
EDIT: Don't we have a WC on our own near the Spanish theatre? To the North East I believe? Drive it down to the freshly conquered lands and do the same to them.
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(June 16th, 2013, 01:19)mostly_harmless Wrote: EDIT: Don't we have a WC on our own near the Spanish theatre? To the North East I believe? Drive it down to the freshly conquered lands and do the same to them.
No. It was used in the fight for Wasserburg.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
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Come on lets be honest with ourselves there would be much roaring, teeth gnashing, eye rolling and claw showing if CFC had the arrogance to demand a favor of us while we were gifting Ivory to their enemies. I'd not threaten we cancel resource trades, either. They could then consider the NAP null and void, which hurts us more than them. Remember what we did in the Apolyton demogame when the Spanish failed to send us Gunpowder...
Darrell
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What favor are we asking of CFC? To not pillage? That's kind of like saying a man is asking you a favor when he says to stop sleeping with his wife (intensity of the offense is scaled up in this analogy for better contrast). When you're right you don't ask for a favor, you demand an action and can seek retribution for being wronged.
Regarding the ivory, I don't think CFFC has offered us any deals to stop the ivory trade to the Spanish. Why not? If they want us to stop the (legal) action they should give us motivation. Like we should give them motivation to stop their illegal (in terms of the NAP) behavior. 
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You can't find a similar analogy about the Ivory gift?
It's either covered by a current deal, or it isn't. No matter of coloring perceptions changes that fact.
Darrell
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From WePlayCiv:
Quote:Hi Scooter.
The Germans were planning an ambush for us. A scouting move by our cahriot discovered another stack hidden behind Warendorf.
So, west of Warendorf:
7 cats, 1 elephant, 2 chariots, 2 spears, 7 axes
Warendorf
1 elephant, 2 chariots, 2 axes
South of Warendorf
4 cats, 1 elephant, 1 chariot, 6 axes (including deepwater Helm, Fonte Rande Helm, and Der Falke Helm)
That totals:
11 cats, 3 elephants, 5 chariots, 2 spears, 15 axes
Rather than get chewed up outside of Warendorf in clear terrain, (or a move 4 which also left our stack exposed both this turn and next), we have opted to try andsplit the defence. Our main stack is moving north, and then west toward Wesselburn.
Our secondary stack will stay where it is (the desert tile just east of the cows), unless they move on it in force, in which case we will try and draw it into our territory. We have lots of reinforcements coming up, so we are not worried if they try a foray into our lands. In fact, it would problem shorten the war if they did.
At any rate, we have probably drawn most of their army north, so 'go to town' in the south.
If they move to defend Wesselburn, we will adavance on Warendorf. If they don't, we will take it and the other northern city while still working to pin down the bulk of their forces around Warendorf.
Your chariot can either move north with our stack, or back to the desert tile with our secondary stack. Your call, but I would prefer he move north. We have lots of reinforcements coming in from Great Plains, but the big stack will not be receiving any.
That's it from our end. Will end our turn in a few hours.
Cheers! Beta
June 16th, 2013, 08:30
(This post was last modified: June 16th, 2013, 08:33 by Ruff_Hi.)
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I think that we should publicly post about the units in the RB / German war theater that includes a list of possible actions and possible RB responses.
Observer ... welcome
Observations to us ... thanks but I think we will be ok
Observations to Germans ... thanks but I think we will be ok
Road Pillaging ... that appears to be childish but if you really want to act that way
Cottage (et al) Pillaging ... that is unacceptable - be wary of our response
Other Pillaging ... really? Is that all you can think to do?
military resource trades to the germans ... that is unacceptable - be wary of our response
We should also comment on our Ivory / Dyes trade that occurred pre the CFC / Spain conflict and was motivated by our Theaters (ie increased happy for us). Could we state that we are planning on cancelling it at the first opportunity?
I have finally decided to put down some cash and register a website. It is www.ruffhi.com. Now I remain free to move the hosting options without having to change the name of the site.
(October 22nd, 2014, 10:52)Caledorn Wrote: And ruff is officially banned from playing in my games as a reward for ruining my big surprise by posting silly and correct theories in the PB18 tech thread.
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I wouldn't confront CFC about the pillaging, nothing to gain from it.
On the other hand showing CP or CivFR that this is what CFC does to people it has NAP's with might give them 1 more reason not to play nice with them.
"We are open to all opinions as long as they are the same as ours."
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Right, let's not play coy and act like our ivory gift to the Spanish was totally not intended to make life hard for CFC. It really obviously was, even if we got it in the turn before their war. Now CFC is returning the favor many times over. Both actions are within the letter but not the spirit of the agreement. The only difference is the magnitude of the effect and who it's directed against.
Which doesn't mean we just roll over and take it, we just need to be prepared for their response and act accordingly.
I can't possibly see declaring to remove the chariot while it pillages cottages we'd bulldoze anyways - I'd be in favor of a message asking them to not do it, followed by a more strongly worded message if they fail to respond and do it again next turn.
But if they fail to respond to that, or tell us directly to shove off, I'd be in favor of evaluating our tactical position and seeing if we couldn't push a sufficient defense to the CFC border to kill the chariot on the turn we take the capital, followed by offering peace plus our current deals. Maybe that's not feasible, but we have a small enough choke that I'd want to investigate if it is.
June 16th, 2013, 09:16
(This post was last modified: June 16th, 2013, 09:17 by Cyneheard.)
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(June 16th, 2013, 09:05)Zargon Wrote: Right, let's not play coy and act like our ivory gift to the Spanish was totally not intended to make life hard for CFC. It really obviously was, even if we got it in the turn before their war. Now CFC is returning the favor many times over. Both actions are within the letter but not the spirit of the agreement. The only difference is the magnitude of the effect and who it's directed against.
Which doesn't mean we just roll over and take it, we just need to be prepared for their response and act accordingly.
I can't possibly see declaring to remove the chariot while it pillages cottages we'd bulldoze anyways - I'd be in favor of a message asking them to not do it, followed by a more strongly worded message if they fail to respond and do it again next turn.
But if they fail to respond to that, or tell us directly to shove off, I'd be in favor of evaluating our tactical position and seeing if we couldn't push a sufficient defense to the CFC border to kill the chariot on the turn we take the capital, followed by offering peace plus our current deals. Maybe that's not feasible, but we have a small enough choke that I'd want to investigate if it is.
We're not bulldozing the towns that we're going to be capturing soon. That's why it's a big deal.
EDIT: I'd be ok with "No Pillaging within the BFC for captured cities" in exchange for "we break the ivory deal to the Spanish": the Spanish are dead anyway.
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