[SPOILERS - PBEM17] Kyan Does Dallas. The Orange Sensation.

[oledavy]

Just got the turn in, if you want to get an idea of the sheer beating I've taken in the last five turns, just look at the casualty report:

Dutch Losses

2 Missile Cruisers (28,000)
28 Battleships (336,000)
23 Destroyers (184,000)
12 Transports (72,000)
5 Tanks (125,000)
34 Infantry (544,000)
1 Marine (18,000)
1 Machine Gun (10,000)
3 Cannon (24,000)
1 Axeman (3,000)
4 Airships (8,000)

City of Rhodes
City of Aleppo
City of Jericho
City of Jaffa
City of Acre
City of Edessa
City of Cairo
City of Beruit
City of Damietta
City of Tyre
City of Antioch
City of Hebron

Total: 1,348,000 Soldiers Dead
(Not Including Power From Buildings/Pop)

Allied Losses

1 Missile Cruiser (14,000)
10 Battleships (120,000)
4 Destroyers (32,000)
1 Attack Submarine (8,000)
8 Transports (48,000)
19 Marines (342,000)
1 Mech Infantry (30,000)
8 infantry (128,000)

Total: 722,000 Soldiers Dead


The words 'catastrophic' and 'Eastern Front, 1941' come to mind.

[SevenSpirits]

...



...

Very fascinating post. I pretty much agree.

I'm always a proponent of variable-length cancellable NAPs with cooldowns, such that it's either always the canceller (or always the other player, I suppose) who gets to declare war first.

[oledavy]

Darrell and Novice were nice enough to drop me a line.

They're very short, I promise, read them

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]novice.rb: Hi
Just wanted to salute you on great fighting and commendable spirit in pbem17[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: hey, sorry was afk
commendable spirit maybe
great fighting I don't think so, lol
but thanks :D[/COLOR]
novice.rb: odds were stacked against you
me: true, meh
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]btw, take care of Edessa
I spent 6 months grooming that city to be amazing
no dikes or moai, or HE anymore[/COLOR]
novice.rb: yeah, moai dike city
me: but still a sweet city
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]novice.rb: ah, HE too
sounds like overkill actually[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: was 1t-ing battleships before
yeah, was losing hammer overflow in golden age[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]novice.rb: you know, Kyan bullied that spot from us earlier, so it had symbolic value to us
that and Aleppo
ok, way past my bedtime, ttyl[/COLOR]
me: ttyl!

I'm not sure about Kyan bullying them out of the sites. Edessa is pretty firmly in the Dutch sphere of influence. Aleppo is a bit iffy.

Darrell: dave
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: hey, sorry was afk
what's up?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: so...how much more of this do you want to endure?
we can go as long as you want, but if it is no fun for you...[/COLOR]
me: last turn was pretty miserable gotta admit
Darrell: Let me phrase it this way, when you are ready to cry uncle just let us know :P
me: still, we came this far and still have a good turn pace, I would kinda like to see it out
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: fair enough
I'm having fun after all :P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: lol, probably will be sooner rather than later :P
what happens after you guys eviscerate me? if you don't mind my asking?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: we eviscerate shoot
since he is giving you help
unless he cries uncle before we can get started I guess[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: tsk tsk
that vengeful for....
3 missile cruisers, 1 battleships, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry, a marine and two bombers?[/COLOR]
Darrell: iss that the tally?
me: that I paid for with cold hard Dutch cash?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: really?
probably not then
althoughh if he gets close to launching...[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: btw, am still surprised you and NoSpace buried your differences to come after me
That was one outcome I most certainly did not expect[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: did you ever consider culture? I speculated on that in our thread
Yeah.
I played it like this...team with you gusy to get rego out of the way, but then recognize you and shoot were tighter with each other than me
so I needed a partner, and that was nospace
I could have misread the situation but it felt like the best course[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: probably was a smart move
I spent a long time trying to convince Shoot to 2v2
not interested enough in the game to do so[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: yeah, it would have changed things quite a bit
just the increase in land to defend would have been problematic
I thought he was going to join for sure
but was waiting due to his NAP with nospace only being 7t[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: if only....
but no, vaguely considered culture
ruled it out that I couldn't beat you to space with culture[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: Sistine was a red flag.
I thought the NAP cancel was to make us refocus so you could have the time[/COLOR]
me: Sistine was me Parkin-ing it up :D
Darrell: lol
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]me: it was available, and shiny, and was GP points for my GP pool city, and I had marble
I'll take a 4t Sistine, thank you very much[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Darrell: yeah, for 4t why not
ah well, gtg...ttyl[/COLOR]
me: night

Yeah...I told a bit of a white lie to Darrell, seeing as I actually haven't repaid Shoot yet and won't be for awhile. Also, if they knew that Shoot subsidized my golden age, I'm sure they would go after him. Still, felt it was necessary, I didn't want my ally to pay for my sins. Darrell also confirmed just how big a threat a 2v2 might have posed to him.

It was quite nice of Darrell to offer me an out, but they've earned this military beat-down they get too put on me, so I wouldn't deny them that. Besides, despite it all, I have never for a second stopped having fun with this game (other than the moment immediately after opening the t176 save). We're gotten farther than most PBEMs on this site ever go, and are still keeping a decent turn pace! It would be a terrible shame to deny lurkers the chance to see a well-reported modern era war, as this has happened so rarely in the site's history. I'm not quitting this game anytime soon.

FWIW, the discussion in the UN Thread has me thinking about some of the what-if's in the game so far. There are three big ones that I'm going to ponder long after we're done.

1. What if Darrell had gone to war with NoSpace during World War II?
2. What if Shoot had agreed to a 2v2 vs. Darrell and NoSpace?
3. What if I had been smarter with my mobilization, begun several turns before cancelling NAPs and gotten a decent sized air force online?

Any one of these would have made the game dramatically different. I might even have a chance at winning I just wish I had gotten Shoot to follow me into World War III - that he was interested enough in the game (so he claims) to do so. That would have truly been an epic fight.

The lurker thread is active again, always makes me nervous. I expect I'm going to get in there after the game and find quite a few indictments of my game. I made a ton of mistakes, to be sure. Though, to say one thing in my own defense: this is my first MP civ experience and I've been playing against some of the best players on RB - anything I did was going to look bad by comparison. Still, I feel like this game deserves more lurker attention than it's been getting (if the number of comments in the lurker thread is any indication). It's the modern era and the winner (that I can tell) is still in question! Most games are wrapped up by the age rifles, but this one is still going with three active threads. That makes a pretty interesting game to follow in my book.

[Mardoc]

That makes a pretty interesting game to follow in my book.

Oh, definitely.

I'm also amazed at your spirit, in your shoes I'd be crushed by now and ready to concede.

So...thanks for a very well reported and interesting game!

[pindicator]

As always, another great write-up oledavy. I think the lessons from modern warfare are very insightful, since it is so very different from fighting in earlier eras. Keep up the fighting spirit!

[oledavy]

[SIZE="5"]Turn 177[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 5 of World War III[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Cities: 22/33[/SIZE]

Another turn, another two cities lost:





NoSpace took a swing at Hebron and Darrell took Alexandria. This war is as good as over. They've already ripped the heart out of my empire.

Still, doesn't mean I can't try to rebuild



The Phoenix! Because like the phoenix, I will, er, rise from the ashes! Sure...

My navy is for all intents and purposes, gone. My remaining defensive strength is all invested in Fortress Constantinople.



Darrell is now blockading my battleship and pair of transports from escaping the port. This last turn, Shoot gifted me a pair of bombers, one of them here. The other one was gifted in Sidon, which I rebased into the Phoenix I'm going to base my bombers out of my inland cities on my main continent (Jerusalem and the ones I refound, and use them to deter a landing force, at least until I get into position for Operation Going Commando - then they get reallocated south. My fighters will be operating out of Constantinople. I also have five workers remaining on my home continent to 1t forts if need be. With nothing better to do with the Constantinople bomber this turn, I used it to bomb and destroy Kenya's fishing boats.

Take That Darrell! :neenernee

Meanwhile, the last vestiges of my mighty fleet and every marine I could scrape together are assembling south of Stalingrad for one last desperate strike.





"All You Greenhorns Who Wanted To See Covenant Up Close...This Is Going To Be Your Lucky Day!"

Wait, wrong game.

There are fourteen marines in addition to my pair of commando tanks in that task force. Next turn they link up with two more transports and eight infantry from the East, and get joined by a few more destroyers before shipping out. The plan is to head east, then south through 1995WorldSeries, then take a roundabout route between Hebron and Nazareth into Shoot's territory to get into position for the landing. If I can avoid being spotted, I might have a chance here. Realistically my chances aren't all that great, but I'll see what I can do. NoSpace now has a pair of mech infantry just sitting in Capital, so they probably have figured out what is going on. Once they see me queue up Military Science, they'll probably have it figured out. One advantage is that I can hide in Shoot's cities if he attempts to engage me, I need a turn to heal a destroyer and a few of the marines anyway. The difficulty is going to be finishing Military Science, my research capability is taking repeated hits and it will take me 5t at break-even right now to finish it off.

On the bright side, I finally got flight at EOT!!! I had to queue in a few wealth builds to do so, but I got it!

:2dance:

I whipped three airships to competition that auto-upgraded to fighters. Next turn, I have a trio of fighters to play with.

Did I mention that I got my 6th GG on t175? He was birthed in Moscow. I'm probably using him to create a super-city defender mech infantry - either that or getting CG2 on a slew of units. I need to get him home alive first. He's currently aboard the HMS Surprise being shipped to my hope continent. It will be the last voyage for my last East Indiamen, sadly. Darrell, is about to close the Eastern Sea for good.



I expect to see him leap-frog down the west coast of old Peru, but he'll be without air support beyond Rostov, which is to my one advantage.

Damascus will be under threat soon, so my biggest priority was to prepare for it's defense. On my home continent, I'm falling back to defending a bare core of cities: Constantinople on the west coast, Damascus on the East Coast, Jerusalem, the Phoenix, and a new city I'm founding next turn 1W of the old Cairo location (the settler completed in Jerusalem EOT. With Damascus, I can draft an infantry every turn. Constantinople reliably gives me one unit per turn as well - most recently a destroyer to see as an stop-gap anti-air battery in the city until I get fighters in. Next turn, Jerusalem is start on the heroic epic before producing nothing but units for the forseeable future. My two new cities are going to bang out granaries, then wealth or units, depending on what I need. I'm hoping by massing defenders here, with lots of air support, cannons for collateral hits on any stacks landed, and a core of tanks as a quick response force, I can hold this "Green Zone" as I've begun calling it, for quite some time. Constantinople is in surprisingly good shape at the moment despite the Egyptian fleet assembling to the west. If I can lock down Damascus and get fighters in the air, I'll be in pretty good shape to fight it out for awhile yet. Back up plan is to pull all the defenders into Jerusalem for a last stand.

The short-term side effect of this is I evacuated all but one defender from Hattin and the newly reclaimed Sidon. It would be risking a Jericho like situation in the south if I tried and holding them. NoSpace don't have many units left to be sure, but they have naval support and wounded bombers operating without opposition. If they have just a half-dozen marines on those transports, as I think they do, he'll simply roll over whatever I defend with. One Rego's continent, things are set to get nasty very soon as Darrell deploying his fleet. My coastal cities here are about to start suffering.

The area has up to know been building marines and ships, I'm planning using the entire region as an aircraft factory to get my air force up and running for the Green Zone in the immediate future. After that, I'll start spamming units for defense. I'll probably start refounding locations inland here too, as I'm doing in the west. Moscow is a fine city with amazing hammer potential. This turn it is building a quick barracks, for happiness from nationhood as much as XP. I micro'd it this turn and the last to the remaining cottages to not waste any hammer overflow on the really cheap barracks, but from here on out it can 1t whatever units I need.

The problem I'm running into in Jerusalem, Moscow & Constantinople is health and happiness. In addition to the usual debilitating industrial age health crunch, I'm starting to lose my happiness resources. I lost spices from Antioch this last turn, and will likely lose wines from Sidon on the next one. I sent Shoot an email asking for his excess source. I really wish I had time to insert some health and happiness buildings in my three cities, it would solve some problems. The culture slider will be a decent option once I'm done researching. On the plus side, I don't have any WW to deal with yet Just the pesky Emancipation unhappiness and some: "we will not fight with our brothers and sisters of the faith" protesters.

Anyway, if I can hold Constantinople and Damascus, I have a decent shot at staying in for awhile and causing some serious grief to anyone who tries to land on my shores. If not, then I've got Operation Going Commando to try and inflict a bit of pain on my enemies before going down. Will all be very interesting.

My military at EOT:




End Turn.

[DaveV]

Great job of reporting, and equally great job of playing to the bitter end. I'm sure your thread will be referenced in the future as an example of how games should be played.

I thought this image was a propos:

[regoarrarr]

Yeah all the lessons you are learning now, I learned during our war, with all your airships. I had Frigates to your Galleons, but with Airships, it didn't really matter

EDIT: or rather East Indiamen. Not sure Airships would have been enough to combat Str 4 v. 8 but it definitely was enough to do Str 6 v. 8 (not to mention you had a lot more ships)

[oledavy]

I sent Shoot a copy of my chat with Darrell, he responded thusly:

[COLOR="Green"]Thanks for throwing them off a bit. I kinda suspected they would come for me if I got close to a victory condition...not that that is going to be an issue or anything *rollseyes*. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the game ends after you are eliminated. Can't really see Novice/Darrell wanting to race it out after having destroyed all of their cottages.

Shoot[/COLOR]

Sent this back his way jut a few minutes ago:

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hey Shoot,

Thanks for offering me wines in game. I requested iron so I have the option of building cannons for collateral on enemy stacks. I doubt you have much of a need for it anymore.

Thanks for the bombers and mech infantry! Unfortunately all the mech infantry were killed in Sidon and Rostov by bombers and marines. A real pity because I could have really used them to defend Constantinople. If you do plan on shipping any more over, please message me before you drop them off so I can direct them somewhere safe.

Do you have any more units inbound during the coming turns?

With all my Buddhist cities getting razed, our 1gpt/3 cities with Buddhism deal is rapidly becoming invalid. Feel free to cancel as many of the gpt deals as you'd like. I have fourteen when I last counted, and I'll be losing more before long.

Thanks for all the support in this war man

Cheers!
Dave[/COLOR]

[oledavy]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys, appreciate the kind words

Yeah all the lessons you are learning now, I learned during our war, with all your airships. I had Frigates to your Galleons, but with Airships, it didn't really matter

EDIT: or rather East Indiamen. Not sure Airships would have been enough to combat Str 4 v. 8 but it definitely was enough to do Str 6 v. 8 (not to mention you had a lot more ships)

I was capped at -20% damage on each unit, so all your frigates were effectively fighting at 6.4. However, even with that, I didn't enjoy any edge attacking 1v1. If your ship was on coast and I was attacking, your vessel would receive +10% for 7.04 strength vs. a 6.0 strength East Indiamen (presuming both were unpromoted). So attacking, I was still at a disadvantage - though obviously much less so than galleons vs. frigates. I sunk your Frigates because I had a ton of East Indiamen, and got one notable lucky streak: winning a string of 46% battles. However, the airships meant you couldn't attack my East Indiamen, as a -20% strength frigate attacking an East Indiamen in coast is 6.6 vs. 6.4. Therein lies the advantage of combining this powerful unique unit with an overpowered air unit.

Wish I had drawn those lessons from our war, I might have avoided some of this pain now Can you imagine if airships inflicted collateral?