That is some extremely impressive warring there. I guess all those years of MP teach you there is more than just getting a SoD and going straight at it. Well done!
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[PB73 SPOILERS] scooter's Oracle
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Congratulations Scooter! Very impressed with the speed of everything.
Two questions: since when does Theology give a missionary in BTS? How does Theo/Vass give 5xp?
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(September 21st, 2023, 01:00)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Congratulations Scooter! Very impressed with the speed of everything. I thought Theology always gave a missionary (this of course assumes you found the religion) - it's only the first three religions that have never given a missionary? And you're right on the ships, Vassalage won't immediately give us a 2nd promo on ships.
Really? Man, maybe it's been a long time since I've gone for a mid-game religion.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
I suppose in principle we could get another GG and settle in our HE city (e.g. Logan if we want to 1-turn ships out of there), although I guess Logan has a few other buildings to build as well; market, library, temples, etc would all be useful there if we really want to maximize the place.
(September 21st, 2023, 07:15)Zed-F Wrote: I suppose in principle we could get another GG and settle in our HE city (e.g. Logan if we want to 1-turn ships out of there), although I guess Logan has a few other buildings to build as well; market, library, temples, etc would all be useful there if we really want to maximize the place. So obviously the HE city needs to be a coastal one, but does it have to be Logan? How much lower would the base production be at a second site that can be ~100% dedicated to military production? (September 20th, 2023, 20:28)Erasmas Wrote: That is some extremely impressive warring there. I guess all those years of MP teach you there is more than just getting a SoD and going straight at it. Well done! Thanks! This was a very strange war to fight as we both possessed military tools we normally would not have at this stage of the game. It was also very strange fighting an offensive war where the opponent has the best unit on the field. That’s not normally how you fight offensive wars. It’s probably why I took his large number of flawless wins kind of hard. The flawless win by a superior unit usually happens when a siege breaks through for the attacker, not just in random skirmishing like this. As for this sentence in particular: (September 20th, 2023, 20:28)Erasmas Wrote: I guess all those years of MP teach you there is more than just getting a SoD and going straight at it. The most misunderstood part of Civ4 is that its combat is way more complex than “build stack send stack.” When playing against humans, the combat really comes alive. The extra variables here (4 move Galleys, Zerks, Cataphracts) certainly took it up a notch. (September 21st, 2023, 07:34)Cyneheard Wrote:(September 21st, 2023, 07:15)Zed-F Wrote: I suppose in principle we could get another GG and settle in our HE city (e.g. Logan if we want to 1-turn ships out of there), although I guess Logan has a few other buildings to build as well; market, library, temples, etc would all be useful there if we really want to maximize the place. It definitely doesn’t have to be Logan at all, in fact I wasn’t even considering it until a day or two ago. I’ll run some numbers later and see how many hammers it’s worth in Logan compared to Connor/Shiv and weigh that against the other things Logan needs to build, which I’ll also make a list of. The main reason to consider it is just that once war breaks out with Oxy, I don’t think it will stop until the game is over. I suspect one of us will crack the other and trigger concession. So the reason to consider it is to get the maximum possible raw hammers out of the building, and Logan’s base hammers are just so high that it really does mean 1T anything I want indefinitely. However, there’s a chance it could also waste hammers by going above that threshold, so yeah, I need to actually run the numbers. Just a non-obvious idea that crossed my mind. (I suspect it’s not the way to go, FWIW.) My turn isn’t up yet, but I did peek inside to see if Oxy accepted peace. He didn’t, but he re-offered, and I accepted. Time to REX for a dozen turns and then prepare for what I assume will be the final war.
There could be other good options as well I guess in Yuris’s land, looking purely at a base hammers from tiles POV, but any of those cities probably needs too long to grow up to be viable candidates if we want to maximize the Heroic Epic’s impact in the medium term for a war starting around T115-T125.
Alright, trying to nail down tech path. Oxy negotiated a T120 NAP end date after I offered T110. This suggests to me that whatever his desired war endpoint is would not be ready by T110, but it would be ready by T120. So, to me that makes one thing crystal clear - he’s aiming for at least Frigates. He could easily have Astro by T110, as I could get there a few turns earlier than that, and Oxy is a couple turns ahead of me. So the 10 extra turns suggests he’s gonna get Chemistry by then and try to leverage a window where he has more powerful units. He’s betting I cannot get there. So, let’s take stock on what I need to get there. This is difficult to answer because there’s lots of different paths. So, let’s sketch out a few paths. I’ll skip mapping to Astronomy, because after this upcoming turn today, there’s nothing in the way. I can just tech it. Let’s start with the bare minimum for Frigates.
Techs Needed for Frigates Wrote:Astronomy (unlock Galleons/Frigates) That’s not that many, but those are all quite expensive techs. I can’t really bulb Astro, but I could bulb Chemistry. The Scientist bulb priority looks like this after removing irrelevant techs. Scientist Path Wrote:Education This means if I avoid Paper that will block off Education/PP and remove them from this list. I could theoretically skip Philosophy by ignoring Code of Laws, but that’s not really practical as Caste in GA would be necessary for all this to really work, not to mention that Courthouses are important. Philosophy also puts me within a stone’s throw of Nationalism, and the GA from that could be game deciding. However, we’re starting to get quite heavy on techs here. Finally, I’ve talked about using the Music Artist to jump-start everything via MoM Golden Age. So let’s slot that in. Here’s a hypothetical plan that does everything while bulbing Chemistry. Everything Plan Wrote:Aesthetics (unlock Lit) This plan would require: * Music Artist to pop Golden Age * Golden Age 1 generate 2 GP for Golden Age 2 * Golden Age 2 generate 1-2 Scientists for Philosophy/Chemistry It’s tight, and I don’t think I can do it all in time honestly, though it’s really hard to project right now. Possible for sure I’m underestimating my Golden Age tech rate, which could be really high potentially. In contrast, here’s the tighest beeline imaginable. It’s the same list this post started with, but let’s think about the actual ramifications. Tight Beeline Wrote:Astro (Galleons/Frigates) The gist of this plan is: * Forget MoM, Golden Ages, and the Artist. No time * Just tech and grow, prioritizing infra in Logan to turbo-juice its output, which is not being maximized currently * Probably also need Code of Laws either way An alteration to this plan would be dropping Monarchy/Feudalism/Guilds in exchange for Paper/Education, as those are the two paths to Gunpowder. This seems like a bad trade as Paper/Education is slightly more expensive, but also the other path unlocks more important things (vassalage/longbows/knights). However, the bulbability of Education is a point in favor. Probably still the inferior plan though. So basically my homework is to figure out what I can complete on time. And I need to figure it out tonight, as MoM is tentatively slotted to start for tomorrow’s turn.
If you get Frigates without building Heroic Epic, can you compete with Oxy’s rate of actually building them, since he has Kremlin whips available? I guess if you plan to go direct to Chemistry you could plan to MoM GA after that, but probably all production would be focused on military, so when would that happen? If you don’t have a MoM GA or two, how do you get the infrastructure built (courthouses, forges, markets, etc.) to be able to afford putting most of the empire on a war footing?
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